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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:22 am 
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Hmm,

I had issues when the chip had SpeedStep on. The CPU would run around 800MHz and never speed up in time. So Cakewalk was always cutting out with heavy plugins like Diva. I have an unlocked chip so I just synced all the cores to always run at full speed. I don't know if you can do that with a locked chip :/

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:37 am 
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:) For the moment, I didn't notice any f....g noise ! :)

Yeah !

(I'm written this because usualy, after a victory cry like that, bad vibrations come back ! But maybe they understood my ruse and they still wait to come to break my b...ls. Hehehe, I'll catch'em and throw them away... Shhhh...) 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:07 pm 
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Good stuff!


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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:35 pm 
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what EIST does is to idle the processor at a very low voltage. then, when programs need more power, it ramps the CPU voltage up step by step until, if the CPU is in very heavy load, it gets to full power. this is to save energy. it works perfectly for off-line apps, but the power ramps up too slowly to keep up with a real-time audio stream. missed samples sound like pops and clicks.

turning EIST off just leaves the CPU at full power all the time, as it should be.

AMD chips have this function too, it's usually called "cool and quiet".

it's good to specify that the CPU should always be run 100% in windows power management as well.


Last edited by garyb on Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:40 pm 
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Cool. I gotta look at my BIOS. But I have SpeedStep disabled anyway.

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:08 pm 
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If I understand well (which is not sure, believe me) EIST and turbo modulate voltage and cpu frequency to save power (!). It's quite normal such cpu modulation is hearable in an audio application like Scope !

I think we finaly find where those crackling noise were hidden !

As I was in the greatest distress without the possibility to use the turbo of my new cpu, I overclocked it all ... Now, the beast is all the time full powered ! (3.7Ghz : I can't set it up speeder, it's the turbo's frequency for that cpu written on its box)

I'm very happy to finaly fix this issue ! And now, I'm ready to try the fantastic m.my91 devices !

Thanks, garyb ! I would never find the solution by myself ! :) :) :)

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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:00 pm 
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:)


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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:05 am 
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:x ---- F.... S .... ---- :evil:

Crackling noise are still there ! I just have a BFD2 snr/bd/hh + a Scarbee Kontakt bass and I get crackles ! Cpu meter is close to 0.

I really don't know what to try next. I think this topic is definitely not on the right place !

Or rather, yes ! I know what to try next ! I've found an second hand Asus B85M-G which should arrive for next weekend. It seems to be a very good mobo and if crackles disapear with that Asus, I swear never to buy anything other than Asus motherboard.

How can one record music with such crackling noise ? I remember a similar adventure 15 years ago : the seller told me "take that MB, it's the same as the Asus but less expensive : same chipset, same blabla (don't remember) same, same same". After all, that MB couldn't play my lot of audio track project, so I went back to exchange the MB with the Asus one and the Asus one played my lot of audio track project without any issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:51 am 
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In the bios, I can set pci express to 'auto' , 'gen 1' or 'gen 2'. Which one would be the best for Xite-1 ? Maybe it will help !

There is also, like in old days, pci latency timer : 32, 64, 96, 128, etc.. I don't have any pci device on the mobo, which value is the best ? I wanted to deactivate pci but I don't find the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:52 am 
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still overclocked?

crackles are missing data. since Scope is realtime and the computer is not, timing is critical. anything that affects timing will end up in crackles. it could be many things, but if you constantly mess around with clocking and the bios, all bets are off. the setting up your computer thread has specific information about setting things up. put everything back to default and then do the setup suggested. if you still have crackles, then it's time to consider the possibility that the motherboard is defective.

by the way, turbo mode won't make audio apps work any better.


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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:06 pm 
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Turbo, EIST and all that kind of features are disabled. The CPU is running at 3.7 Ghz as it should and without being able to change its frequency.

Bios at its default settings -> turbo + EIST activated makes more crackles. In fact, whatever I do in the bios, I still have some cracklings. That's why I'm going to try another MB. It's ok : I've found a second hand Asus B85M-G = 56€. And I'm discovering that windows 7 can run easily on another MB without reinstalling everything because this is a pain to me !

I'm fed up to try everything everywhere to find what happen and now, I suspect the motherboard too much, I have to try another one, I'm sure the MB is the problem.

Thank you for your help ! I'll let you know if the Asus has solved the issue. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:12 pm 
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Did you run LatencyMon?

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_whatsnew

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"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays


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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:43 pm 
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At the begining of the test, it was written "Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts." I don't know if I should make the test when cubase / scope are running.

Anyway, after starting the test, I went to eat something and forgot about it. :P I started Cubase to play before to check the results, it was full of crackling ! So I remembered it is LatencyMon test ! :D (as you can see, I left the test running more than one hour !)
And it gave that result but I really don't know what I could turn off in the power management ! Everything is already off ! And it's the same for the bios. The problem is that I'm not sure if the bad result appeared after I started cubase to play or if it was already detected by LatencyMon.

I tried again the test just for 5 mn then started cubase to see if bad results would come back but they didn't. There was still the same message 'system suitable for real-time audio ... bla bla bla'


Anyway...

Here we go for LatencyMon report :





CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be having trouble handling real-time audio and other tasks. You are likely to experience buffer underruns appearing as drop outs, clicks or pops. One problem may be related to power management, disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 1:15:58 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: JOPO-VROAR
OS version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601 (x64)
Hardware: MS-7817, MSI, H81M-E35 V2 (MS-7817)
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4590S CPU @ 3.00GHz
Logical processors: 4
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 16068 MB total


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 30 MHz

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 3992,864862
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 1,460855

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 131,411606
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0,485133


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 80,3820
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: ataport.SYS - ATAPI Driver Extension, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0,031162
Driver with highest ISR total time: portcls.sys - Port Class (Class Driver for Port/Miniport Devices), Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0,04490

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 5654200
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 255,6880
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: USBPORT.SYS - Pilote de port USB 1.1 & 2.0, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0,104755
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: scopexite.sys - Scope XITE-1 WDM Adapter Driver, Sonic Core

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0,227280

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 29375742
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 2
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count: svchost.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults 10639
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 8868
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 7535954,9010
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0,435827
Number of processes hit: 17


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 66,586654
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 80,3820
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 8,186228
CPU 0 ISR count: 5654200
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 255,6880
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 40,817247
CPU 0 DPC count: 29323679
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 17,081369
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 1 ISR count: 0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 68,0880
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0,036465
CPU 1 DPC count: 5066
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 14,602806
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 2 ISR count: 0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 62,2220
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0,098716
CPU 2 DPC count: 22350
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 15,077881
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 3 ISR count: 0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 73,6490
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0,485380
CPU 3 DPC count: 24649
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:36 pm 
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To day, I put an Asus B85M-G in the pc. It arrived very fast ! I finished several hours ago and so far, I didn't hear any bad click/pop & else. But now, I'm a bit wiser before to scream victory too early !

Anyway, I don't know if the MSI board has a manufacturing defect or if it would be the same with any H81M-E35 MSI but next time, I know from wich company I'll buy the MB !

PPFFFffff !

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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:04 pm 
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I looked around at issues with portcls.sys and ataport.sys and both had really bad audio latency issues and BSOD problems related to HD Audio on video, audio cards and disk controllers from DVD to SSDs. I did not see even one post where the problem was solved completely. MSI and Gigabyte MOBO's and Realtek Audio figured high on the list as well as some OEM machines from Dell and O/C'd game type laptops. There is some incompatibility with versions of chipset drivers, controllers and audio, video and ATAPI drivers and the winning combination is completely elusive, if at all possible. That's my research.

You did the right thing instead of spending years trying to fix what seems like an impossibility otherwise.

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"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays


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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:32 pm 
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Thanks, Ronnie ! You reassure me ! The Asus B85M-G is not a high end MB but it's for my 2° pc, completly dedicated to music with Xite-1, Xstation, Midiman 4x4, BCF 2000 and Powercore. There is no internet connexion. Yayajohn gave me the idea for upgrading to keep the ancient pc. So the old pc has all the rest : internet and all.
So, I think that little mobo will do the job.
I'm very happy to finaly have a working well system ! :D

And now, MUSICA !

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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:02 pm 
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that is great!


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 Post subject: Re: Discrete crackles
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:26 am 
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I believe computers won't work correctly with people who don't like to tweak them for working well. They are sadistic : they like to piss me off. :roll:

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