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 Post subject: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Recently had to ditch the B2003 for better Tonewheel Sounds, and now that I have used
the VB3 for a while only use the B2003 as a Leslie effect for Solaris and certain Deep Purple sounds.

In the process of tweaking the VB3 though I was disappointed at how VSTi's still sound
in upper registers after being so satisfying in the middle registers.
So I started thinking outside of the box and remembered how audio can be expanded
and compressed/limited so I tried the good old stock S|C plugs and now when I use
drawbars (SpaceF CC2x2 x 3 for Exp. Pedal 1) and Swell (SpaceF CC2x2 for Exp. Pedal 2)
I get dead on Balls accurate sound as without these, the VB3 is another decent attempt
at a Hammond, but only for a couple of octaves.

These old stock plugs are the bomb as they use next to nothing for resources and I can
just peeper a mixers insert with them.

Glad sampled instruments don't suffer this native limitation.
The B2003 still has the best distorted Deep Purple tone, but the VB3 gets the rest of the
chores now.

Image
free upload image

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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:58 pm 
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dawman wrote:
Recently had to ditch the B2003 for better Tonewheel Sounds, and now that I have used
the VB3 for a while only use the B2003 as a Leslie effect for Solaris and certain Deep Purple sounds. In the process of tweaking the VB3 though I was disappointed at how VSTi's still sound in upper registers after being so satisfying in the middle registers.


Sounds like you need Revival (with Harmonic Modifiers).

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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Is that part of Reason.
I can actually start using some Native stuff since my CPU never gets above 5%.
I saw they released a new version recently so maybe the stuff sounds better than it did a few years ago.

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:33 pm 
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It's a Reason Rack Extension. rack extensions let 3rd party device developers come online to Reason, like Impact Soundworks, iZotope, GForce, Softube, Expert Sleepers, Rob Papen, u-he etc..

https://shop.propellerheads.se/browse/? ... extensions

Previously 3rd parties could only sell sample packs for Reason samplers - such as Shreddage.

But now it's full on device plugins as well, since about Reason 6 I think...and reason 8 is now in the pipeline...


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:10 am 
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Will Reason host Kontakt and PianoTeq..?
I would like to get essentials and see what it's like or even demo the latest version 7 full if that's possible.
And why don't these companys selling rack extensions or instruments have demos, or should I search a separate website just to hear the stuff...

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:23 am 
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dawman wrote:
Will Reason host Kontakt and PianoTeq..?


No.

Phead Reason doesn´t host VST/AU plugins at all.
RE is their own format and every developer known from VST or AU platform has to port his plugins over to Phead RE format.
I think, when the plugin is originally done in C++, Phead is able to compile and put it in their shop.
I doubt the result is better than a VST or AU plugin, but for Reason only users it´s a big advantage now using 3rd party plugins.

To me, it is relative and I still use Reason (6.5) rewired into a VST host application.

In fact, upgrading Reason for me makes most sense when it becomes Rewire Master and integrates ReCycle one day.
That´s what I hope for.
It would be great using Reason w/ SCOPE, then rewire a CPU friendly VST host into Reason, the VST host hosting a handfull of VSTis being indispensable for the time being,- like NI Kontakt p.ex..
That way, the VSTis would use Reason SSL desk emulation which is a good sounding virtual console IMO, then route main outs and busses out of that virtual console into SCOPE.

dawman wrote:
I would like to get essentials and see what it's like or even demo the latest version 7 full if that's possible.
And why don't these companys selling rack extensions or instruments have demos, or should I search a separate website just to hear the stuff...


Well, these REs are a bit strange in handling ... once you have buyed online using your DAW (you have to !), downloaded and installed on the same machine, you cannot sell ´em anymore regardless you dislike it or not.
That holds me back buying REs at all.
And, as long as I use VSTs anyway, there´s no need for REs.
My intention would be always reducing stuff and not expanding to one more format in the ballpark.

B.t.w., since you use VB3 which is the old version, it won´t need much time until VB3-2 for PC and Mac will be out which actually is the Crumar Mojo and Hamichord engine.
When released, your problems might be history.

But you could go also hardware.
Version 3 of HX3 Expander is released and it sounds amazing incl. the leslie sim w/ modelled leslie power amp overdrive.
http://shop.keyboardpartner.de/epages/13705466.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2F13705466%2FCategories

Here´s a user´s audio demo who just only upgraded from v2 hardware, so he doesn´t benefit from new v3 hardware.
Upgrading a v2 hardware unit is a firmware upgrade only.
http://www.divshare.com/download/25987079-c05

So, v3 hardware and new firmware is much more promising because of more output & reverb routing options.
You´d have the option to go out mono but w/ power amp overdrive, rotary effect disabled and into your real Leslie p.ex. and when schlepping the Leslie is too much, you go out stereo w/ the int. Leslie sim alone.
That little box, software running on a FPGA, responds to various MIDI drawbar CC mappings like VB3 and NI B4 II or VOCE drawbars.

I think I´ll buy it to use it w/ my Kurzweil PC361 saving ressources by not using KB3 mode and double leslie sim which eats up all FX DSP power, and it will be an improvement over KB3 and B2003 sound for sure.

When you think about ordering, ask for the standard enclosure variant which doesn´t come w/ illuminated plexi frontpanel.
You won´t need that gimmick and the standard version is cheaper but actually not listed in the shop.

When you own or find a trashed Hammond/Suzuki XB-2, just only the keys, drawbars and PSU functional,- there´s an excellent retrofit kit avaialable the keys connecting directly to the circuit board, so no MIDI latency at all.

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:24 pm 
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dawman wrote:
And why don't these companys selling rack extensions or instruments have demos, or should I search a separate website just to hear the stuff...


They all have demos. First, theres a 'Try' button for each device where you can try it for free (but you can only 'try' if you have Reason of course) - then, on the detail page for each device there are normally soundcloud links or youtubes under 'Media'. Failing that theres normally a link to the developers website where you can find more audio streams as well.

Bud is correct, its up to developer to port thier library or device to Reason format(s). Although I was able to port my 'Heavy Hitter' (Alan White & co) drums from AKAI to NNXT relatively easily and (without a whitecoats 1's & 0's degree from the academy of nuclear music science).

You cant load Pianotek into Reason, but they have hypersampled the Yamaha C7, the Steinway D Grand, and the Steinway K Upright into a Refill as a poor mans substitute.

Check out my latest demo (kitchen sink) in the music forum - this is all Reason sounds except the Minimax lead and the ProWave pad. And its all stock stuff - not much tweaking except maybe a DAS legend EQ on the acoustic guitar RE and drums. In the intro is Reason (RE) version of Shreddage - I have both the RE and the Kontakt version of Shreddage, but prefer the RE version. I have BFD Core in Reason also, but prefer stock Dr Rex Acoustic drums.

I probably need to spend some time on BFD to get the most out of it.


Last edited by dante on Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:27 pm 
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Will check it out Dante, thanks for the info as Pheads site is slightly misleading.

@ Bud,.........
Thanks so much as you know I am never really happy with software synths and instruments unless they are well sampled, or in the case of PianoTeq well developed until they sound good.

These software Hammonds everywhere are tradeoffs but that demo had great swelling and the Leslie is really authentic sounding.

If this module has stereo Leslie out and can act as a stereo out Hammond emu, and accept my MIDI data from SpaceF CC2x2s, they owe you credit for a sale.

Really excellent craftsmanship as usual from your neck of the woods.
Septemeber looks like the ADAT Ferrofish and the HX3 module.

Sweetness. :wink:

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:35 pm 
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The Selig B3 is just a combinator using Thor synth sinewaves and mixers, so can be tweaked to death with your knowledge the only limits. EG its modelled (not sampled).

I will try out pHeads piano, and report one day, it wont be up to Pianotek standard, but i suspect it will be damn good (hypersampled) for the price.

I will also get the pHead Leslie which can be got seperately as an RE these days, I wouldnt be surprised if they used Selig's algo for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:58 pm 
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dawman wrote:

Thanks so much as you know I am never really happy with software synths and instruments unless they are well sampled, or in the case of PianoTeq well developed until they sound good.

These software Hammonds everywhere are tradeoffs but that demo had great swelling and the Leslie is really authentic sounding.

If this module has stereo Leslie out and can act as a stereo out Hammond emu, and accept my MIDI data from SpaceF CC2x2s, they owe you credit for a sale.

Really excellent craftsmanship as usual from your neck of the woods.
Septemeber looks like the ADAT Ferrofish and the HX3 module.

Sweetness. :wink:


http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2620505/Re_HX3_MIDI_expander_module#Post2620505
The user found minor bugs.
I´d follow that thread for some time and wait a bit until all is fixed.
As I said, he made the v2 > v3 upgrade, so it´s not proof the issue(s) will appear in a all new unit too.
Keyboardpartner is a very small and enthusiastic company like S|C, not much manpower also there.
When you go to the forum which is mainly in german ...
http://forum.keyboardpartner.de/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=faefc6494d50a888b08de569b4165fec
use the HOAX (former name of HX3) expansion thread and post in english,- some do already.
The developer is also in the forum and his forum nickname is "bovist".
That´s the guy you´d have to talk to in detail,- he has the answers.
I´ve read in that forum before, for him it´s not difficult to add customized drawbar CC mappings to the firmware !

Here´s the czech company using the HX3-engine and build it into organ controllers,- not bad,- even these are renditions for the time being.
http://www.magorgans.com/

But because of budget and portability, I´ll go w/ a expander unit first and hopefully soon.

B.t.w., these Keyboardpartner guys were also these who made Leslie preamps and retrofits for Dynacord CLS222 based on the miniature tubes coming from russian MIG jets.
I told you about that some time ago.
For these preamps, they analyzed the power amp of a leslie 122 in depth and got a almost perfect result.
Now w/ the expander module, you get that w/ the FPGA circuitry w/ no real tube necessary at all.
To my ears, it sounds really good and is on par with or even better than NEO Ventilator.

good luck, I hope it works for you !

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:14 pm 
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BTW - did I mention that Reason has Tap Tempo built in on transport bar ?

Attachment:
File comment: Reason Transport Bar
reason_transport.JPG
reason_transport.JPG [ 7.36 KiB | Viewed 2667 times ]


Maybe not specifically for delay devices, although if you had a Reason project just set up for delay purposes it might work.


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:48 pm 
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Thanks Guys.
I love it when tips turn into tips for me.......

Ankyu..

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:13 pm 
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Apparently you can also do this in Reaper, which I also didn't know! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:55 am 
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Got it Will...Thanks

Put a custom icon for it above the IEM Click Track/Master.
Being stupid works out really well sometimes.

Image
upload jpg

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:20 am 
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Left of the TAP/BPM, is that a HAL9000 button? Daisy, Daisy...

And I like the KungFu button next to PLAY...for unleashing woopass on VST performers, ...brings back balance.


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:54 am 
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These are custom icons from a guy at cockos.
Ying and Yang means repeat, the other is stop even though I use hardware
controllers.
But usually the only toolbar I see is the performance toolbar at the top
Project Bay and Project Tabs for quick access to 50 various tunes.
The arranger toolbar is to the left for markers, reverse audio, Quantize and grid
placement, edut/copy/paste, insert click track, etc.
Just the meat and potatoes.

Cockos........?? Weird name.
Sounds like a cereal where they use little dicks and balls instead of the alphabet...

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: Unconventional Compression
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:37 pm 
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Got my HX3 Expander from Germany and the Tonewheels keyclick Leslie and Percussion are on the money.

Works with SpaceF CC2x2s.
XITE-1 MIDI In to XITE-1 MIDI Out into HX3 Module.
Audio outs into ASIO Destination module to Analog Out to Spacestation vrs. 3 as wellas ADAT Out to FOH.

The Overdrive circuit is good but for some of my sound I need that Marshall / RingMod for real screaming.
This means the ASIO Dest module reroutes the HX3 into my DAW(Bidule) where the Melda Multiband Saturators harmonics can be perfectly tweaked for that Jon Lord/Steppenwolf sound.

So Bud I owe you for that tip.
HX3 is a badass B3 with great control.
Having multiple Overdrive and Rotary emulations is key to covering all styles.

I was contemplating taking a gun and going into the next and doing the right thing.
But then so HX3 made life worth living again. :lol:

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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