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 Post subject: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:08 pm 
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I'm thinking of doing a Scoperise article on how to keep a growing Scope project managable visually and therefore hopefully conceptually.

For example :

. Is it worth it ?
. Are you phobic about moving devices around to reduce right angled connector bends or crossing connections ?
. Do you use 'External Device' so you can label things with thier correct name ?
. Do you use an FX rack to reduce the number of devices cluttering the window ?
. Left to right processing ( eg inputs on left and outputs on right ? )

What other tips and tricks do you use to keep projects neat, managable and readable ?


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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:06 pm 
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dante wrote:
. Are you phobic about moving devices around to reduce right angled connector bends or crossing connections ?


The OCDer in me is always moving things round to tidy those cable kinks.


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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:56 pm 
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dante wrote:
. Is it worth it ?

I think it is. Complex projects demand an organised workbench. I spent long enough getting the physical space of the studio right, I treat the Routing Window the same. It's hard to accommodate the spontaneity of creativity if you gotta hunt for something.

dante wrote:
. Are you phobic about moving devices around to reduce right angled connector bends or crossing connections ?

Only sometimes! Some graphs have knots - you can't avoid it.

dante wrote:
. Do you use 'External Device' so you can label things with thier correct name ?

Never tried it. Sounds like something I need to check out!

dante wrote:
. Do you use an FX rack to reduce the number of devices cluttering the window ?

Rarely, but I have on occasion. Rarely stack so many effects that I need it. Usually, two inserts and an aux bus or two on one of the mixers does the trick.

dante wrote:
. Left to right processing ( eg inputs on left and outputs on right ? )

Yeah. My Scope monitor is still the 4:3 baby, so I'd like a 16:9 or 16:10 job. Right-to-left or top-to-bottom would feel wrong (I'm right handed, and write from left to right). And the location of the pads / pinouts on Scope devices kinda force you down that left-to-right road.

My own workflow? Have two Scope projects per Song. Store the Ableton Live Set, the Reason project (if I'm using it in a track), and two Scope projects, in a folder. First Scope project is for the individual tracks (named <song-name>-tracks.pro), second is for the stem mixdown and mastering (named <song-name>-master.pro).
I separate the actions to help me stay focused, and to help reduce the DSP requirements per stage.
For the first "track" project, Scope receives Midi from the Sequencer, forwards to Scope synths, and sends Audio back over ASIO to the DAW. I might add other effects in the DAW, and when I'm happy with the mix, I render the audio in each track to a track named "<track-name>-printed".
For the master project, I just send each "printed" audio track to Scope, add mastering treatments, and send it back to the DAW again as Stems.
In the track project, I mix on both my monitors and on headphones - for the master project, I use the Focusrite VRM Box getting SPDIF digital from Scope, get balances right on headphones, and cross-ref with my monitors, then other playback devices. I prefer to monitor during the mastering sessions at higher volume, my monitor placement is far from ideal, and I find the VRM Box is OK for what its intended, for my purposes...

I have a default project for each Scope project type (track and master), down under the Projects dir in my main Scope install. Has all the routings done up, ready to rock. I take a copy of those two default projects, save them with the Song name in the Song folder, and play with those for the duration of my working on the Song.
I occasionally return to the default project, to add a new effect I found useful, a new bread-and-butter synth sound or effect chain for the guitars that help develop 'my sound', or to enable or retire some outboard or other... The Mastering project's routing of processors/effects rarely changes - I just store named Mixer channels and the processor presets in the Song-specific version of the project...

I used to mix down to Stereo in Scope in the mastering project, but I'm digging the new FXpansion DCAM Dynamics VST at the mo, so, recently, its stems from Scope that get that final bit of final 'glue' treatment in the DAW. I hope to purchase some of that DAS stuff at some stage too...

I'm still a Scope newbie. So, I'm more interested in hearing of other folk's setups than I am interested in saying my way is great... Works fine for me at the mo.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:00 pm 
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i don't use things just because i can. i don't complicate processes that can be simplified.

that usually sounds best and avoids clutter.

if complicating thigs serves a purpose that really can't be fulfilled otherwise, i complicate away. i'm not against an action. i'm just lazy and i find that serves me well when it comes to mixing and using extra devices and routings.

another way to keep things clean is that i don't make a big project with every possibility connected and then try to use it for every operation. tracking only requires a stereo feed from the sequnecer. mixing doesn't require more than a stereo pair back to the sequencer in most circumstances. i do volume mute and send automation in the sequencer where it belongs('cause the sequencer does that best) which makes my scope project cleaner....etc.

i trash extra takes and anything that "might" be used, but won't be. there's no glory in having unecessary tracks to mix. clean is a way of life. i wish i could be this clean in real life....


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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:56 am 
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Screen real estate is always a factor. A 50" monitor would be very nice to have.

What I do is try to push the things that don't change from project to project such as ASIO ins/outs as far off the screen as possible to leave room for the new devices. Use insert effects if there is no other reason not to. I stopped showing the channel view of the mixer as my default since I only really needed to reference it a portion of the time.

my 2c


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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:23 am 
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I found that, without pretty complete templates, my productivity was draining cause I'd be poking at this, prodding at that, in the routing window (not least reducing elbows and knots in the device wiring!). That was probably because I was still new to Scope at the time (still am!), and trying this and testing that was fun (is fun!), but doesn't get you producing music...

I don't have many devices loaded in the template projects. Placeholders for Synths and Processor devices, an instance of Inferno or other light synth, that's about it. And the 'master' template really doesn't look any different for each song - it just has different settings, but the routing is the same...

I create presets for devices (if they're not stock presets) with the Song Name in too.

Oh, and I use the Scope Notes device too - it's a freebie, cannot recall what the name is, but I think it was on one of Mr. Arkadin's 'free devices' links on an older hitfoundry.com ScopeRise article... I use that device for any components that have unusual settings, and any devices that have automation coming from the sequencer.

Aha! This is the one:
http://wolf-audio.com/wad/freebies/Entr ... notes.html

As for external Midi gear - is there a way to store a "Program Change" message in Scope to send to Midi gear? I do it from Ableton, works fine - first clip per track just has the Program Change message in, so when I fire up Ableton, I play the first scene in the set, and my Midi gear is ready to play - especially since I often use Midi over USB for my Noah EX and my Blofeld, leaving the Midi ports free for 'standalone playing' from my midi controller keyboard and guitar, and Scope can't send Midi over USB...

This overall scheme does mean that I can pick up a track I've shelved easily enough.

I also have two patchbays. I've threatened to take a photo of the front of the patchbays per project, store the jpeg alongside my project files per Song, but I've never actually done it yet! Probably cause I usually render stuff routed thru the guitar pedals and the like to Audio tracks once I have it sounding OK...

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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Eanna wrote:
As for external Midi gear - is there a way to store a "Program Change" message in Scope to send to Midi gear?

Theres some info about program change presets here:
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_16/mid_mast.htm
If that doesnt help or Ive missed something, let me know.

Some great suggestions coming up here, they will all be collected ankyu all !


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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:53 pm 
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send and recive progr change bank select
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=31166
good vibes


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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:04 am 
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And also use 1 Modular shell and put DJMicrons copies of synths for Modular uses inside of it, using the tgstgs LSB/MSB/PrgmChng device, with SpaceF MIDI Splitter.
Shroomz and Wolf had one too, but no least/most significant bytes for Banks.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Thanks to all for the hints re. Program Changes. I'll be trying out some of these techniques in the coming days...

A general point...
I've seen enough talk on this forum about SpaceF devices, that I'll like a chance to get a piece of the action.
Some of his devices are mooted as best-of-breed.

What's the story with purchasing devices from SpaceF? Only some of those devices that are listed on his site are available to buy, from sonic-core.net.

I understand that SpaceF is/has moved onto a different place, and that his departure from the scene may be temporary, but an opportunity to purchase his devices, even without official support from the developer (especially given the helpful community here on planetz), seems like he's missing a trick for bringing in a few bucks for mature, stable devices?

If others, like Celmo who seems not to frequent these parts much anymore, continue to sell their wares on their sites, then why not SpaceF?

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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Don't want this Topic to lose its way cause I started asking about SpaceF...

Any Scope Project ideas are more important to me, to the Topic, and to Dante's article...

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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Sometimes SpaceF shop is not open, not sure if it is at the moment but a subset of his devices are always available in S|C shop.

Not too fussed if this post goes off topic a bit, coz I just extract relevant bits for ScopeRise anyway :)


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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:39 am 
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. Is it worth it ?

definitely yes!

. Are you phobic about moving devices around to reduce right angled connector bends or crossing connections ?

of course! i love straight lines and i try to keep right angled connections at the minimum!

. Do you use 'External Device' so you can label things with thier correct name ?

Yes, with my external hardare connected to board analog inputs/outs and adat

. Do you use an FX rack to reduce the number of devices cluttering the window ?

No

. Left to right processing ( eg inputs on left and outputs on right ? )

obviously! :)

Quote:
What other tips and tricks do you use to keep projects neat, managable and readable ?


more or less the ones you have already reported...

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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Few things:
The Preset Controller device from tgstgs is uber cool - like all good ideas, its simplicity is its strength.

I have changed to use named External devices to pass thru audio to my I/O, and moved the devices for each physical I/O point off-screen. This one trick alone has freed up some space, and means my reliance on the Notes component isn't half so great... ;-)
To be able to rename these is fab, and to be able to save a routing by saving a 'copy' of the device is just the business!
I now have a new Folder in my Tools device menu, called "Pre-routed Virtual Devices", sub folders Ins and Outs, with devices such as "Monitors", "Cans", "Blofeld", ready to be tied in with the rest of a Project Routing...

I've also replaced some devices in my default template with the External devices. Another great one! It's a pity that removing a routing in these devices doesn't appear to free up the Device Pads on the virtualised device. The devices get a thicker border, as if the Pad was in place and available, but the pad label isn't visible and the device can't be connected in the Routing Window without reloading the device. It's no dealbreaker tho.

Wish there was not just Mono and Stereo versions of these devices - something to virtualise 4 or 8 outputs would be useful. Also, an equivalent set of devices (Source, Destination, External Effect) that had Device Pads for Midi streams, to virtualise midi gear - altho there may be a difficulty there if we wanted to control multiple midi channels, might need to act in tandem with a Midi Merge module? (I'm sure it'd possible, but I haven't thought that one thru!). But another set of these virtual devices, bit like tgstgs idea, with Pad Routings in Presets - that could be potentially useful accompaniment to save the routing of modules on Patch Changes - change the Minimax instance to Preset A, and send its audio out to the Fuzz pedal and back in...

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 Post subject: Re: How do you keep your Scope project Neat and Tidy ?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Hi, looking at SpaceF's Modular Mixer this evening, seems that you can be expressive with routing and arranging a DSP-efficient setup with a tight Routing window.

Anyone using this? What does it bring to your party?

Thanks, Eanna

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