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 Post subject: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:02 am 
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Location: Moscow
Does anyone use the DAS F07 from the FM pack? I'm thinking of getting this. How does it compare to a native plugin such as NI FM8?


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:25 am 
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no sysex support like the ni sound is nice though but you would need to write patch sheets to read dx7 sysex files

long time waster but thats what i used to do for my older synths esq1 sq80 and the dx7 and cz101 minimoog

but with open scope hopefully this sysex implimentation will be able to be supported

but i must say fm7 or fm8 does not sound as good as the hardware and my sy99 rocks

but with the scope system i would llike to see new creations not emulations


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:37 am 
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Location: Moscow
jhulk wrote:
no sysex support like the ni sound is nice though but you would need to write patch sheets to read dx7 sysex files

long time waster but thats what i used to do for my older synths esq1 sq80 and the dx7 and cz101 minimoog

but with open scope hopefully this sysex implimentation will be able to be supported

but i must say fm7 or fm8 does not sound as good as the hardware and my sy99 rocks

but with the scope system i would llike to see new creations not emulations


Thanks for the reply jhulk. I wasn't really looking to import or recreate DX7 patches but recreate my own. I was looking for a better sounding FM synth than FM8 and I was hoping that DAS F07 would fit the bill.

I'd really like a good hardware FM synth - my dream being the FS1R but hardware FM synths are pretty rare here in Moscow.


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:47 am 
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I would like to add that. very often the sound is defined by the D/A converted.. so perhaps a DAS Legend and maybe a L2A in a chain or anything like that after the synth as standard would probably help the sound a bit.

I would be interested in the FM07 as well. I have owned a FS1r, and i must say it is a great piece, but its very complex to program.

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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:17 am 
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There are some sound sampled on the ScopeRise site by the way:
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_12/f07_mast.htm


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:55 pm 
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F07 can accurately reproduce any of the sounds of my PLG150DX (same circuit as original DX7 with maybe improved converters).

In fact the F07 sometimes sounds a little better, maybe due to the wider data paths in DSP.

Even though the algorithm are numbered differently and envelope parameters different its not too hard to take a DX7 patch sheet and convert it for the F07 (maybe 15 - 20 mins per patch).

However, programming patches from scratch (if you have an existing sound to reproduce by ear) can be a challenge and in some cases I can get it right, and others not.

Those original DX7 programmers - well, hats off to them they must have been able to do fourier analysis in thier heads and ears or something.


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:00 am 
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but with this fm07 you would be able to run 4 instances and have patches like the sy77 and sy99

i have lots and lots of dx7 patches and have a massive bank from the last micheal jackson tour

ill get this das fm07 and start to convert patches as i have a great editor for the sy77/99 and dx7 so i can just transfer the data across easily


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:34 am 
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Great idea if they are public domain maybe start an F07 patch library here.


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:55 pm 
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i have over 40,000 patches

some public domain some user patches from old atari st days

and im part of the dx7 forum where we exchange patches

theres a neat python program that converts patches to dx7 from 4op synths

and various modules

including the yam plg and dx200

i have not got the das plug yet but will next month once i have recieved my plugs from revaltion day as of yet im still waiting

im busy transfering my patch colection from my prophet vs but when open scope comes im going to add parts that are missing modulation matrix and the proper type loop envelopes and

the unison mode and 8 voice mode where you can set different panning for each voice as you cant do these types of sound which make the prophet vs sound so massive

and becuase the envelopes are different you cant do hoover type patches properly

but will do the fm07 patches once i have the plug would be nice to compare to the nifm7 which is better than fm8

dante looked at the update archive site looks cool good job and thankyou

if you want i can send some dx7 sysex to you so you can transfer some aswell as 40,000 patches would be a daunting task for one person


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:44 pm 
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This is a tool for the Nord Modular G2 to convert dx7 to G2 patches (it also converts patches from 1st generation Nord Modular to G2)
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15405



Has anyone ever decrypted the device or preset files in scope? If so, it's probably not too difficult to do something similar...read in a DX7 patch, and write out a .dev or preset file (that matches a .dev template in modular III or IV or the F07 for that matter).


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:14 pm 
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jhulk wrote:
idante looked at the update archive site looks cool good job and thankyou
ankyu

jhulk wrote:
if you want i can send some dx7 sysex to you so you can transfer some aswell as 40,000 patches would be a daunting task for one person

Yeah sure would, since it could take 15 min per patch. Leave that till someone can write a converter like jk says - (Open Scope?) I think. That would be great if Open Scope became a platform to build sysex importers / converters.

For the F07, may not need to decrypt .pre file format - Eric might help.


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Wow, a converter and patch/bank sharing would be great!

Looks like I'll be splashing out for the FM bundle, then!


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:16 am 
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Anyone have some idea how the sysex for the dx programs are listed? or is there any documentation for that?
I could probably program a converter, but i dont own a dx synth, and have no clue about the format :).

Btw. I didn't even knew about the F07, and i think that is mainly due to the fact that on the Sonic Core Shop, it is a really bad picture of the bundel. Not showing the content in larger image.

I thought the FM bundle was 3 small synths like el-piano thingy.. and NOT a full-blown FM synth! :P

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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:49 am 
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on the python program it reads in dx7 file then takes all info and the formats it to the required sysex strings

this is so it can be loaded into fm7 fm8 and other fm synths that dont do dx7 files

now i can ask the programmer to add the fm07 template for it so that it becomes a .pre they will only be 32 patches at a time as that is what a sysex bank is

but i would need all the params from erics template so that he can write a script in python to change the sysex template into the .pre fm07 template wont need open scope for that

as its already acheivable in python

and it will be a matter of just loading in the pre file

and on the program

you can do all sysex files in one folder and it converts them all putting them in order and no duplicates

he has done even 2op sysex converted into 6op

so if we get the template should not be a problem


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:06 am 
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i guess the question is how is the .pre stored? is it a custom data structure pr. device with a specific order? Or is it chunk based stuff?
Then we need to decode the sysex on the DX side..(which i guess the python program already does)

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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:42 am 
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the python program already does all the conversion routines

just need a template for the .pre of the fm07 from das as eric nows the structure and created the synth

all we need is a table for each part corrisponding to the dx7 params once this template table is provided i can give it to the programmer and he will do a script for the python
program to change dx7 params to fm07 params and the outfile would be .pre

eric has functionally made fm07 be like the dx7 but has used adsr instead of the normal dx7 envelopes but makes it more programmable for use rather than entering numbers in columns for each
step of the envelope

so its very possible to do we can already convirt v50 dx11 tx81z and 2op toy keyboard sysex t5o dx7

the programmer does the same he makes tables up of corisponding data and then writes scripts to change data to format of the destination file

the python program is greaty and is perfect

in the free domain patches you get a lot of patches which are the same but different names

the program sorts them out puts them in alpha betical order and deletes duplicates whether they have different names as it goes by the synth data if it finds i dentical data its removed

the program is brilliant as i have used it to convert all sysex data to dx7 so that i could convert it to sy fm format


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:00 am 
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Perfect, seems to be sorted out.
PM me if you need any help.

I will buy the F07 sooner or later, just now i need to get some adat converters so i can get at least 16in/out to my scope. Using it as a mixer instead of the MOTU i am using today.

I want to be able to apply the SL9000 or C350 on each channel stripe while making and mixing down music :D

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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:10 pm 
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jhulk wrote:
eric has functionally made fm07 be like the dx7 but has used adsr instead of the normal dx7 envelopes but makes it more programmable for use rather than entering numbers in columns for each step of the envelope

There is also the L1, L2 and M2 parameters, which I tweak by ear since I dont fully understand thier counterpart in DX terms, but they are important to the sound. Also the algorithm numbers are different but I have already mapped those, well 31 out of 32 of them anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:01 pm 
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as long as eric can give us the what the meaning of and there usage

and as long as we can give the guy the correct algos types to corispond to erics from the dx7

like you said you have already mapped them

and all the other params a conversion template could be creatd

also with any conversion like the sy99 and sy77 you loose all modulation settings so you still need to tweeak

but you get the basis of the sound then tweek to your liking


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 Post subject: Re: DAS FM07
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Am I mistaken or does the DAS F07 lack LFOs? I thought even the original DX7 had them.


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