Beginners Study MIDI IN & MIDI OUT On Mixer Devices

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fraz
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Beginners Study MIDI IN & MIDI OUT On Mixer Devices

Post by fraz » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:23 pm

OK,

I thought I'd begin to get the ball rolling on this scope study and thank Chris Werner for his suggestion a while back... :) . I thought I'd pick something that I'm not too familiar with and ask about it. Hopefully I and others can learn and hopefully the knowledge sticks. Since there may be some very experienced users replying to this thread can I please ask you to keep the answers and tips as simple as possible to maximise the learning experience... :D ....


So...On the mixers like the Big Mixer, STM 32, Channel Mixer and the Control Room Mixer for example there are MIDI in and MIDI OUT connections.

On the Dyna Mixer for example there is only a MIDI in.......why no MIDI OUT? My main question is how are Pulsarians supposed to use these connections??? - In other words, what would / could someone connect to these MIDI in and MIDI OUT connections. Please will you give examples of both what would / could be connected to MIDI IN and MIDI OUT on these devices???

Is it possible to connect synths to these connections? - Or effects? -

hubird

Post by hubird » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:54 pm

Mostly these mixer midi connections are used for midi controllers ('cc').
You can control faders, on/off buttons, or insert effect parameters, or even program change/bank switches, or use the Midi clock to sinc LFO's, etc.
You then also can record the controller information in your sequencer to automate mixing processes.
There are special 'bipole' controllers for on/off switching, and other more exotic controllers, but I don't know much about that :-)

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wayne
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Post by wayne » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:19 pm

You can map physical controllers to the mixer using scope midi source, or automate the mixer with your sequencer using sequencer midi source.

If you have faders or knobs mapped to a CC, a mixer will send that Midi info, to the sequencer, for instance.

No time now, i'll let the good folks of Z elaborate :)

fraz
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Post by fraz » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:35 am

Mostly these mixer midi connections are used for midi controllers ('cc').

Hardware MIDI controllers - right?

There are special 'bipole' controllers for on/off switching, and other more exotic controllers, but I don't know much about that

Can you elaborate on this please?

hubird

Post by hubird » Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:07 am

why only hardware, you can apply modulation or panning etc. in your sequencer software.
About the different types of controllers this page may be usefull:
http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/midispec.htm

fraz
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Post by fraz » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:30 am

hubird wrote:Mostly these mixer midi connections are used for midi controllers ('cc').
You can control faders, on/off buttons, or insert effect parameters, or even program change/bank switches, or use the Midi clock to sinc LFO's, etc.
You then also can record the controller information in your sequencer to automate mixing processes.
There are special 'bipole' controllers for on/off switching, and other more exotic controllers, but I don't know much about that :-)
Hi,

I'm starting to begin to understand the possibilities but getting my head round this properly may take some time. When you have some time to spare would you explain some real world examples of what modules may be connected to both the MIDI in of the mixer and MIDI out? - After a while I may learn enough to experiment under my own steam... :)

fraz
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Post by fraz » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:53 am

Been having a bit of a think on this...If you connected a Seqencer MIDI Source module into the MIDI in of a mixer and connected the MIDI out of a mixer into the Sequencer MIDI Dest module via a MIDI merge module and then in your sequencer of choice created a MIDI track specifically for the recording of CC data then recorded the Scope mixer movements what ever they may be, this would be good practice - right? - wrong?

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garyb
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Post by garyb » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:23 am

yes, you can record mixer movements as midi data and play them back as automation.

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Post by fraz » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:18 pm

[quote="garyb"]yes, you can record mixer movements as midi data and play them back as automation.[/quote

I'm glad I've grasped that... :lol: ...how else can the MIDI in / out on the mixers be used? - Examples please.... :wink:

hubird

Post by hubird » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:23 pm

sorry, wasn't at home this evening :-)
But you found it already by your own, and Gary said it right.

You could put the question differently:
what elements of the mixer and the insert effects can have a controller assigned to it?
As soon as you know what's the function of a specific element , f.e. a fader, you know what a controller can do for you.So you can control the master fader with a modulation wheel on your master keyboard (controller #1).
To do this with the pitch bend won't work, as pitchbend is bipolar.

You should realize what categories of information are offered by Midi protocol, most important are:
- Note on/off
-Aftertouch
- Pitchbend
- Continuous Controllers (cc), 128 per midi channel
- Program/Bank change
- System Exclusive (manufacturer specific messages, often used with older
synths without Midi)
- Clock.

Pitchbend and Aftertouch did exist already before the Midi protocal became standard, so these 'controllers' got their own 'category', to stay tuned with conventions.

So, Midi also transports clock (if you turn that function on in your sequencer), so you could use that to sinchronize the rate of LFO's etc.
There are reports that this isn't always functioning in SFP as it should tho.

If you look at the colum on the left on that site I gave the link of, you can see how the continuous controllers ('cc') are defined.
The definitions are useful if you work with General Midi, the conventions make it possible to have controller settings always assigned to the same parameters of any (GM) synth.

It's good to read the definitions of all those controllers, as some are meant to 'continuously control, others are designed to just switch between two settings (bipolar, f.e. on/off).

To give you an impression:
An example of the latter are controllers # 80, 81, 82, and 83 ('General Purpose Button').
This is how the mentioned site describes the nature of these controllers:

Number: 80, 81, 82, 83

Affects:

Whatever the musician sets this controller to affect. There are 4 General Purpose Buttons, with the above controller numbers. These are either on or off, so they are often used to implement on/off functions, such as a Metronome on/off switch on a sequencer. If a MultiTimbral device, then each Part usually has its own responses to the 4 General Purpose Buttons.

Value Range:

0 (to 63) is off. 127 (to 64) is on.


Yet you can use any controller for most functions of course.
As Scope mixers can have only one Midi channel, you are restricted to 'only' 128 controllers max.
If you would like to have all buttons, faders etc. of a mixer have a controller assigned to, you will get in trouble thus.

You don't have hardware controller gear?
You can use the controller possibilities in your sequencer.
Create a controller track or add a controller in the track settings (like Cubase can), and 'draw' the controller information graphically as curves.

Often you also can choose 'waveforms' from a list, f.e. to imply a vibratio effect on a filter (or fader if you like) by choosing a fast sinus.
They are sinced to the songtempo, the 'rate' then is depending of the 'note value' you choose for that waveform.

Not relevant for controlling mixers, but the place velocity takes in Midi world isn't really clear to me, but as it works as meant I don't bother :-D

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Post by wolf » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:34 pm

hubird wrote:To do this with the pitch bend won't work ..
well .. not yet ;)
As Scope mixers can have only one Midi channel ..
Which is true for all scope devices beside one forthcoming ..
see http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 6&start=19

sorry for the plunge :)

btw, usually MidiOut in Scope land is not a MidiThrough. It does only send controler messages out, if you move a fader/knob/button which has a CC assigned to it.

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