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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:18 am 
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Posts: 303
Location: Berlin
fra77x wrote:
Quote:
How can you call a program you barely understand "kindergarten"?


to incentivize you guys to prove me wrong :D

sorry! but wow, it this is really it, that would be great, I will check this out in the next couple of hours - oh and maybe I really barely understood it, but as far as I last checked, you could route external audio (cv) to for example the pitch inputs in reaktor, at least you kind of can do this in modular on scope, thats why kindergarden..but maybe I was all wrong...

will check this out today and report back...we'll see whether it is kindergarden or not :D


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:34 am 
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Posts: 889
We don't need any motives...

Quote:
you could route external audio (cv) to for example the pitch inputs in reaktor


You can route anything to anything. Wake up. It can do it the last 20 years..

Quote:
it this is really it, that would be great, I will check this

You won't check this. You will learn how to do it.

Quote:
but maybe I was all wrong

You are all wrong.

Quote:
we'll see whether it is kindergarden

We won't see nothing. Grow up.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:29 am 
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Location: Berlin
tomylee wrote:
fra77x wrote:
Quote:
How can you call a program you barely understand "kindergarten"?


to incentivize you guys to prove me wrong :D

sorry! but wow, if this is really it, that would be great, I will check this out in the next couple of hours - oh and maybe I really barely understood it, but as far as I last checked, you couldn't route external audio (cv) to for example the pitch inputs in a reaktor sampler, at least you kind of can do this in modular on scope, thats why kindergarden..but maybe I was all wrong...

will check this out today and report back...we'll see whether it is kindergarden or not :D


edit" you could NOT route" forgot the not -, and if instead of "it"


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:20 am 
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Posts: 935
yes reaktor does do it again the sample needs to have slices the exact size so that when jumping from slice to slice it goes through zero crossing

kontakt can do it to as i created a emulation of the sd1 by ensoniq

and also did a transwavesynth which is not complete as i have not had time to get the gui done for it busy making music

djmicron you just talking about sample start jumping which is good for removing the start position of samples say you dont want the transient of a piano so you jump to the tail of the sample but with out loop it will just play the whole of the rest of the sample

granular it is not as granular uses the same type principle as wavetable synthesis but uses any section and loops to a specifed amount and uses interpolation to smooth the transformations but the sample does not need to be accurate in the slices like wavetable synthesis

its more glitchy

now sts uses the s1000 standard

the akai s5000/6000 does not it uses its own format so really the sts cant be based on those akai samplers it might look like them in gui

but they dont have the akai s5000/6000 features

now if the akai can jump loop start and can keep loop size as set with out shrink the loop because of sample start then it should be able to jump between loops but its not a real time control so it needs note on information set problem is it will retrigger each time


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:25 am 
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and now I remember why I didn't bother to check the rest of the reaktor samplers for audio rate start time inputs:

>>control rate sampler gate/trigger inputs!!

a nogo for my tasks, check demo, kindergarden it is indeed.

still, once I tried to get the effect supplied within the demo, with reaktor, and it sounded just horribly thin, maybe some interpolation going wrong, and maybe because of the max 3200hz polling rate for the gate to audio conversion I had to apply, if I remember correctly

don't try to tell me reaktor is not a toy, but I have to admit it is a quite stable reliable average toy for the everyday musician, just like a volkswagen, right? gets the job done, but does not excel getting it done, nor does it shine.

but then, how can it compete with a dsp engine that does 56 bit integer processing on all of its internal tasks? (h4000-h8000range eves)

your response sounded like you were offended by me calling reaktor kindergarden, I'm sorry but in such a case I have to add fuel to the fire

but then, if NI should read this, maybe they update some modules to really use today´s CPU power adequately, meaning updating all internal signal paths to full resolution audio. too much asked? got to have to stick with dedicated dsps then.

and as I said, there is only kyma and to some extent eventides that can get the job done really well and excel at it. but I am not sure about the kyma cause I never had one, probably a mistake.

and still I think the scope environment with all its sufficient dsps would be ideal for really crazy real time triggerable audio resolution sample madness...too bad there were only the - admittetly magnificent sounding - STS samplers, and maybe some modular modules, like sample oscillator, but they were very limited and if I remember correctly, they also just had gate trigger inputs...lolz-..

hey dont get me wrong, I don't wanna troll, and if I step on some feet, it may be just for the best, maybe to - as I said - incentivize you guys to push the limits of technology...

we all know new (electronic-)music comes with new technology, just sux sometimes to have to conceptionalize and then even realize things all by myself to be able to do new tricks with music...


Attachments:
Screen Shot 2015-01-20 at 12.51.06.png
Screen Shot 2015-01-20 at 12.51.06.png [ 15.24 KiB | Viewed 1494 times ]
tomylee & holly demo.mp3 [1020.84 KiB]
Downloaded 57 times
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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:04 am 
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Location: London, U.K.
Max/MSP might be worth a look, although a bit of a learning curve to start with. You can pretty much do anything you can think of with it and it supports up/down-sampling for high sound quality inside modules if that's important to you.


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:17 am 
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I doubt you can distinguish between sample rate and bit rate.

Async and control signals as in reaktor are still 32 bit they are just computed to a lower controllable sample rate
because asynchronous signals are meant to be controlled by humans.

It's a sensible decision not a limitation.
pc's can easily do 64 bit arithmetic the last 10 years and with an almost unlimited sample rate.

By the way i don't use reaktor...

Attachment:
reaktor tretrigger.mp3 [245.31 KiB]
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Last edited by fra77x on Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:53 am 
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max/msp can do it but you need the gen also

i can do this with will if he wants i already been working on this a long time in other formats

so i can make up the multisample scannable wavetables


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:05 am 
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well just for single cycle wavetable madness here are some multisamples use

4 sample osc

1 osc as main osc with tuning and 1 osc as sub osc this is the first osc pair

then again for the second oscillator pair have that go into a crossfade mixer

then have them go into a switch which can switch between lowpass and hipass 4 pole filters and bandpass and notch are just switches that combine the 2 into 1 out put

then have a vca 3 envelopes 1 for pitch 1 for filter and 1 for a couple of lfo and a panning mixer

a nice little wavetable synth you can then load up different multisounds into each bc sts sample module set the sub bass modules internally to -12/24
Attachment:
akai format.zip [108.25 KiB]
Downloaded 53 times


here are your first 10 wavetables to get you started in akai s1000 format enjoy
use 2 mvc modules with the coarse pitch and fine pitch for each pair

and away you go bliss wavetable synthesis for hours of fun when finished and if you like it then make a scope sync panel for tweeking via your daw


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:39 pm
Posts: 303
Location: Berlin
fra77x wrote:
Attachment:
reaktor tretrigger.mp3


whatever you used, it didnt sound smooth!

but Im happy that high resolution sample scanning seems to be possible in reaktor!


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:05 am 
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I used reaktor.

ok i agree with you.

You have a point here. Audio rate retrigger of sample osc's is very useful for some type of effects.

And certainly a clue of high quality audio engine.

I have build at the past an audio rate sequencer for scope. (not for samples)

Just for fun i upload a wavelab pitch bend.

Attachment:
wavelab p.mp3 [162.86 KiB]
Downloaded 74 times


You are right. :)


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:35 am 
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And a simple sample of my (native) sampler showing how it can easily go up to audio rate.

I modulate the bpm with my mouse without interpolation. Also no precaution for fold-back frequencies.

Attachment:
sal raw audiosampler.mp3 [369.39 KiB]
Downloaded 106 times


:wink:


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 Post subject: Re: sts sample start time modulation
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:16 am 
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fra77x wrote:
And a simple sample of my (native) sampler showing how it can easily go up to audio rate.

I modulate the bpm with my mouse without interpolation. Also no precaution for fold-back frequencies.

Attachment:
sal raw audiosampler.mp3


:wink:


the wavelab example sounds quite right, and the last one pretty good, now if you drew the speed increase into automation and flattened the rise, it would sound as smooth as I imagine it had to be ;) - anyways, what sequencer and (native) sampler you used?


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