sts sample start time modulation

Talk about the STS series of Creamware samplers.

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tomylee
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sts sample start time modulation

Post by tomylee » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:07 am

finally got back to my scope system, and I am fiddling with the sts again, the algos in it are the cream, uh core ,) - anyways, is there any possibility to modulate sample start time?

that would be soooo nice :)

cheers!
tom

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petal
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by petal » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:08 pm

I think it can be done. Have a look at this (at the buttom half):

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct05/a ... cience.htm

Good luck :)

tomylee
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by tomylee » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:12 pm

man, of course it works (kindof) in other samplers, but I prefer sts for the sound, dont know why

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petal
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by petal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:37 am

Dude, the S5000 is modeled after the Akai 5/6000, which was why I linked you to a solution for that specific sampler, although I hadn't tried it out. But I have now, and it "kind of" works :)

Here's what's written about it in the manual for the s5000:
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tomylee
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by tomylee » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:46 am

wow nice find! :D

actually, I guess I used that couple times and was not quite happy with the results, I wanted something to scroll through a long sample with a modwheel or something with higher resolution, never found it

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petal
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by petal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:11 am

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it can be done in the STS5000.

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petal
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by petal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:20 am

You can do exactly what you want to do in ShourCircuit, which is a nice little freeware sampler.

Version 2 never was finished but version 1 works great, and you can do a lot of weird stuff quite easily.

http://www.vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php

I know that you wont have the nice algos from STS5000, but maybe you like ShortCircuit anyways :)

tomylee
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by tomylee » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:31 am

I stumbled upon this one too, I should give it another try :) In the meantime I programmed an eventide to do what I want :D - but it's sampling functionalities are not quite made for creative sampling, although you get a lot out of it if invested the right amount of attention - I was also looking at how reaktor is dealing things, but reaktor does not even do real virtual cv, I really need virtual cv for all I do, no midi, no async signal paths whatsoever :D - one thing I know though, kyma would make me happy in that regard...unfortunately I heard those machines are rather noisy, and costly - and then I heard the clavia modular g2 can actually scan sample memory with external high res controllers, so I should get deeper into that before kymaing my way out of my terrible misery :DD

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petal
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by petal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:42 am

Maybe the BC-modular/ScopeSync people can/will create a modular sample module capable of what you want to do, and you will then be able to keep most of the scope algos.

http://www.bcmodular.co.uk/forum/

I know that Jhulk has been talking about creating/getting a working sample-module for modular for a long time.

tomylee
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by tomylee » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:55 am

ah well I guess it is ok right now, I don't really need to go to deep into it at the moment anymore, right now I am more concerned with some good way of extracting vocals from mixes for a remix - did you ever try that? there was this service once, I dont remember, they charged online for doing just that, I have no idea what they used to achieve it, but kyma would probably again be the right lane to go - or any success with izotope RX? as far as I heard you can extract single harmonics of sound events

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petal
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by petal » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:10 am

ok,

I can't say I have great experience with vocal isolation. I believe it has been discussed here om PlanetZ from time to time. Also it seems like google is your friend :)

https://www.google.dk/webhp?sourceid=ch ... 20a%20song

Good luck,
Thomas

tomylee
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by tomylee » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:01 am

to get back to the short circuit, are you sure it can take an external audio signal to modulate it's starting time?

cause that's exactly what I am looking for! :) weird something simple like this is not implemented in anything out there I know...except maybe a kyma system

fra77x
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by fra77x » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:02 am

It can be done in reaktor.
The sts only allows velocity to modulate start sample position and not in realtime but on every key press.

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petal
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by petal » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:07 am

tomylee wrote:to get back to the short circuit, are you sure it can take an external audio signal to modulate it's starting time?
It cannot.

I would look to Max 4 Live or Pure Data and build something that could either do all what I needed or transform an external audio signal to midi cc.

fra77x
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by fra77x » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:39 am

yes, max/msp and pure data most certainly can do it
(modulate the play position of a wave oscillator with a cv signal)

I have done it in reaktor. Now i have implemented such a function in c for the sampler oscillator part of my modular / daw.

djmicron
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by djmicron » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:07 am

if it's enough for you to modulate the start time, but only when a new note is pressed and all you need is a more precise input method, then we can do something with scope sdk to convert some cc to velocity to be sent to the sts.
I know the emulator x can modulate sample start in any way, by cc, lfo, etc., also on shortcircuit v1 there is the zone start parameter to be modulated.

If what you need is something that scrubs in real time on the sample, it's not just a sample start modulation, it could be done with scope sdk a module to be interfaced with the sts sampler, if we make for example a device that generates velocity by moving the modulation wheel or any other cc controller and on every value change it sends a note start, so that we should obtain a scrub like effect.
Of course there are other native tools good for this, such as reaktor, but this can be a good idea for a new device.
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jhulk
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by jhulk » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:46 pm

emulator x can do it because they took the idea from ensoniq when they brought them out

but you need to have a table that is equal in samples per slice

then it moved on loop size at a time the emulator x does not do it as good as the ensoniq hardware its not fast enough
you get time delays between jumps

if the akai has a modulator for sample start via velocity then a module could easily be made

as its easy to use any control to output velocity data at fixed sizes but for each 1 you would need to assign a loop length so that when modulated it would jump to the next zero crossing of the next slice

now whether the akai.dll allows this is another thing but in the akai 1000 format you could set upto 8 loops and have them loop for a set time before moving to the next loop so the akai1000 does allow this if the akai.dll follows the akai s1000 features then more sample manipulation could be done but there is no program that allows this unless you program it on the s1000 the s3xxx range dropped the multi loop of the s1000

djmicron
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by djmicron » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:56 pm

jhulk wrote:emulator x can do it because they took the idea from ensoniq when they brought them out

but you need to have a table that is equal in samples per slice

then it moved on loop size at a time the emulator x does not do it as good as the ensoniq hardware its not fast enough
you get time delays between jumps

if the akai has a modulator for sample start via velocity then a module could easily be made

as its easy to use any control to output velocity data at fixed sizes but for each 1 you would need to assign a loop length so that when modulated it would jump to the next zero crossing of the next slice

now whether the akai.dll allows this is another thing but in the akai 1000 format you could set upto 8 loops and have them loop for a set time before moving to the next loop so the akai1000 does allow this if the akai.dll follows the akai s1000 features then more sample manipulation could be done but there is no program that allows this unless you program it on the s1000 the s3xxx range dropped the multi loop of the s1000
hi, my idea is more on the direction of retriggering the sample more than looping it, the effect should be similar to a granulizer, such as the flexor regroover, just an idea.
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tomylee
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by tomylee » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:05 pm

sorry, went to sleep early yesterday,

thanks for the inspiration, but I am not sure if I was clear enough, I am looking for a sampler whose start time (start point) can be modulated by an audio cv signal, preferably in a software environment, ideally in scope, and superideally if the sts had some audio inputs just for that, and some more...

some more? well my dream sampler has cv inputs, start time cv, pitch cv (!!) and most importantly "trigger cv in" - this way you could use an lfo at 80hz for example to trigger your favourite sampler. reaktor, be it all so great and all, is still in kindergarden when it comes to this, never found any cv inputs on any of their sampler modules, what a joke, we have 2015.

can't be that I have to get one of these noisy (heard they are loud :/ ) kyma machines to get some really sophisticated creative sampling work done?

an sts6000 with cv input for most of it's parameters and triggerable up to about 10000hz, that would shoot me out of the skies ^^

note: the important thing about the cv input for start time is not the better timing of audio vs midi, but rather the higher resolution. load a 5 minute sample into a sampler and try to get to some very specific point with your max 7 bit aka 128 steps of velocity - what a joke, this already bugged me back in 2003 when I first got my hands on ni kontakt sampler.

I really wish I could program scope sdk...but I never was able to learn it!

@djmicron, fammi sapere se vuoi creare il più potente sampler che é mai stato creato, possiamo metterci assieme, se vuoi potrei anche invitarti a berlino, ho abbastanza spazio qui e una camera libera, tutto per fare questo sampler in scope, fammi sapere intanto...

fra77x
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Re: sts sample start time modulation

Post by fra77x » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:00 am

reaktor, be it all so great and all, is still in kindergarten when it comes to this, never found any cv inputs on any of their sampler modules, what a joke, we have 2015.
I'm sorry but reaktor a. is not "kindergarten" b. you may never found cv inputs but everything in reaktor is a cv input.
Where do you look?

How can you call a program you barely understand "kindergarten"?
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