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 Post subject: translator to STS5000 from Kontakt
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:32 pm 
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Has anyone ever translated Kontakt files into STS5000?

The guys at Chicken Systems say that their translator witll handle it just fine. I'm just concerned about the granularity/resolution also translating accurately.

Anyone?

Greg

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:53 pm 
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noone? OK, I'll just talk to myself.

I was able to translate the wav's into .s files no problem, but there are no sts files, and the kontakt keymaps translated into .nki files?

DId I miss a step? I need the sts files.

I have NO idea how well this will map into usable groups from the Kontakt setup.

Greg

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:37 am 
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Extreme Sample Converter will do the trick :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:25 am 
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awesome, thanks!

Greg

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:21 pm 
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mpodrug wrote:
Extreme Sample Converter will do the trick :)


I'm checking out the extreme converter and so far so good. Haven't purchased it until I can get the samples, keygroups, etc. all to work in STS5000.

I've successfully imported an sts program, but still get no sound output, and am also getting a 'nil reference on left side of '.' as a result of expression 'Program"' error when clicking on any part of the program window.

Does anyone know if this is a problem with the translation, or am I screwing up something?

It's literally been about 5 years since I've even toyed around with the STS, so I'm re-reading the manual (what there is of it), but am still not sure these translations will work.

Anyone?

Greg

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:54 am 
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Hi! I dont know what is error you are getting with your translation. I have successfully translated many of my kontakt and other(akai, roland) formats to STS. All of them worked and i really mean all. No problems whatsoever. Even my old Emulator banks are translated as well (they seems to be problematic to some people)..

Too bad i cant give you more advice for now :-?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:31 am 
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mpodrug wrote:
Hi! I dont know what is error you are getting with your translation. I have successfully translated many of my kontakt and other(akai, roland) formats to STS. All of them worked and i really mean all. No problems whatsoever. Even my old Emulator banks are translated as well (they seems to be problematic to some people)..

Too bad i cant give you more advice for now :-?


OK, thanks.

Greg


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:28 pm 
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Alright, so I finally got one batch of samples and nki files translated, and when inserting the .sts file, all but about 22 to 26 of the samples load!

When navigating to where the samples are, STS-5000 basically freezes Scope.

NOTHING ever seems to work the first time - EVER!

The STS manual is stupidly redundant.

Is there a memory ceiling in STS-5000? Is there a bug? Am I an idiot?

Now, I have to wait another day.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr......

Greg

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:17 am 
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Hello, what type of instrument are you trying to translate? Is a complex giga instrument with diferent layers like a piano or someting like that?
What it´s the original format? If it´s Giga you could use Halion to import it, then save the layer you want to use to Halion format, and Extreme Sample converter will work.
Have no experience when use Kontakt.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:40 am 
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I have some time now. Post us detailed problem so we all can help you if possible.

Regards!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:25 am 
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mpodrug wrote:
I have some time now. Post us detailed problem so we all can help you if possible.

Regards!


Thanks!

I'm trying to translate Soniccouture's Hang drum series - http://www.soniccouture.com/pages/hang.php#
.
These are primarily setup for Kontakt2 and 3, but I do not wish to spend money for yet another sampler, if I already have STS-5000.

They are multi-layered, and have various keymaps.

I've tried two translators with mixed results - Extreme (demo) translates ok (.wav's and .sts files), but STS runs out of headroom when loading all the samples - basically stopping with 22-26 samples left, and when I tell STS to stop loading samples, it deletes the whole sts file from the pool. Extreme's tech support is looking into it.

The Chickensys translator (free demo) spits out .p and .s files OK, but no .sts file.

I'm basically still a newbie at STS - even though I've had it for years. I'm just not a sampler kinda guy, so reading the manual hasn't answered any questions, and I'm still reading through all the older threads looking for instances of low memory problems, or translation problems, etc.

My system has plenty of horsepower, and the samplers are loaded on a local harddrive alongside dfhS and Atmosphere libraries.

Anyways, any other help or shared experience is appreciated.

Greg

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:24 pm 
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First of all, use Extreme Sampler Converter and forget the others.

You must analyze and understand the Kontakt program. I don´t know how Kontakt arrange the layers and the instruments (cymbal, snare, etc.)
Halion for example use diferent folders for diferent layers. For example, in a Gig piano, there is a folder with the samples that are played when the pedal is up, and others played when the pedal is down, others when release the key etc. If you convert that gig piano to STS with any converter can occur two things:
-CD extract can work, or cannot. If works, will take "only" the note on pedal up and will discard all the others.
- Extreme Sample converter will convert all them, but when you press a key, will sound all them, the release, the note on pedal up, the note on pedal down at the same time, and will sound like a chorus.
It may occur also that the converter don´t understand ok the layers setup, and so make a bad sts program.
So you must understand first the structure of your library. For example, is that is a drum kit, may be too big, and contain pedal info about the charles. You can try to load the program with kontakt, and then save individually each instrument in it´s own format, snare, cymbal, etc.
Then try to convert each individual little kontakt to STS program with the Extreme Sample Converter. You can try first in a single konktak program (any other single program diferent than that big drumkit), and if works, try with the drumkit individual parts, if something fails, is that there is a complex layer setup that the converter don´t undestand.
I have never used Konktak but with Halion it works, so if you cannot get no result with kontakt could try with Halion.
Once you understand the library structure, and learn how to discard some samples/layers, that it´s a quick routine.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:59 pm 
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Yes, the Hang library has 6 .nki files (program keymaps, etc. right?), and then ONE subdirectory contraining all the samples (.wav's).

Currently the extreme translates the nki, and translates the wav's AND nki all into the main folder. Everything is at one level.

I've tried copying just the main folder over as well as leaving the subfolder in order to see how STS-5000 sees the 'structure', but there is no change in behavior.

I'll continue testing, but am for now assuming that all the samples loading for one of the sts programs is just too much for STS to handle. I also have to check access speed on local drives, since this may also be an issue related to 'loading time' for the samples.

Thanks,

Greg

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:05 am 
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Well, the .nki files are the kontakt program files. That means, that there is stored the info of each wav, what key correspond to each wav, at what velocily will be played, etc etc.
Each of those 6 .nki files is a diferent configuration of all these parameters. What you have to do is edit them, and save your own new .nki files. Forget STS-5000 to understand nothing. STS is just an AKai based sampler that doesn´t understand what you do in Kontakt. So you have to do all the work first in Konktak.
For examle, load on of those 6 .nki programs in Kontakt, and see what each one have, what diferent instruments have each. For exmple, one can have a "jazz kit" other can have a "rock kit" and so on. Within the jazz kit (is an example), can be for example 8 wavs in the keyzone that corresponds to one key, and corresponds to one sound, for example the snare. Kontatk must allow you to delete from the keyzone (don´t worry will not delete the wavs), the other sounds around, and save just only that instrument that contains only the 8 velociy layer of only one snare into a "new" .nki file. that new .nfi file then you can go to the sample converter, and then load it into STS. If you do the same for each, you´ll be able then to load separately each sound in STS, and for example, make your own drumkit with a "jazz" snare, but for example a "rock cymbal" or what you want. do you follow me? what you must do is looking into your Kontakt keyzone, edit the wavs that you want, and save your own more sigle .nki programs, that will be more easy to load in STS. Note (important), that STS cannot load over 730 mb in total. So making individual programs for each instrument of the drum, you´ll be able to check how is going the memory.
don´t get boring, it´s worth the effort. Playing drums with STS is very nice, the latency is very low and stable, and much better feeling that with any Native sampler. I have a drumkit with a lot of velocity layers, and the memory is not problem, so be quiet ,will work.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:22 am 
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Thanks, I will check the nki files again.
I do NOT want to buy Kontakt. I do not have it, which is why I am translating.

I know the nki's are key/velocity maps, so I will open them in an editor and see what is in the file.

And thanks for letting me know that there is a 730mb limit in STS. I do NOT think all the samples are over the limit, but I will check this later.

Thanks,

Greg

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:57 pm 
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just now getting back to this.
I appears that the overall size of all the samples in the instrument folder is a little over 1Gig i size!

I don't feel like truncating the samples, so I'm wondering if there is a workaround for the file-size limit (or perhaps a feature update in Scope 5.0?).

This sampler is OLD, and needs an update for the new OS, and Scope 5.0 anyways in order to keep up with the market.

Greg


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Man, check if you .nki files don´t belong to Vsti instrument. I mean, if I remember well, there are some Vsti that come with it´s own library, and I think that are .nki, I´m not sure, if are that type of library, they are protected, and will canno use them out of the Vst instrument that comes with.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:59 pm 
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lagoausente wrote:
Man, check if you .nki files don´t belong to Vsti instrument. I mean, if I remember well, there are some Vsti that come with it´s own library, and I think that are .nki, I´m not sure, if are that type of library, they are protected, and will canno use them out of the Vst instrument that comes with.


I believe the .nki is the Native Kontakt keymap file, which I am assuming should translate into a .sts file.

Greg


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:55 am 
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Does the library come with a Vst instrument or stand-alone program that allow you to play the library or not?
If comes with it´s own sofware then, probably is .nki file that is copy protected and cannot be converted, only played with that app that comes with,
if comes only the library without any app, it could be converted.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:27 am 
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I think it is better to convert to akai files s1000/3000,

then load the akai in sts and then resave them as STS from the STS 5K itself (if needed).

That way you have two levels of cleaning of unecessary parameters (that may cause the bugs). In addition to being able to use the akai files in other apps.

I don't use STS anymore anyway (for years now) so i don't know how it should be done nowadays, but that's what i was doing when using the sts. Try it and tell us if it helps.

But the kontakt and akai format (used by sts) are so different (how many years since sts release?) that i wonder what is the point in using nkis into sts ??
Better idea would be to resample your loop or some velocity layers and make a totally new library inside the sts. I suppose. It is true that even a soundfont sound much better in scope than in vst/native.
May be we'll have more format of samples to use in scope / xite in the future (as now it is only 44.1/16 bits).


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