Are plugins 0dB VU or 0dBfs?

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Music Manic
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Are plugins 0dB VU or 0dBfs?

Post by Music Manic » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:09 pm

Are the plugins in Sonic Core programmed to clip at 0dBfs or are the
analogue emulations programmed to clip at 0dB VU?

Thanks

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valis
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Re: Are plugins 0dB VU or 0dBfs?

Post by valis » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:53 pm

0dBf, anything that has saturation otherwise will declare it in documentation.

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RA
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Re: Are plugins 0dB VU or 0dBfs?

Post by RA » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:33 am

For dNa plugins:
http://dnamusic.nl/dNa.Scope/index.php/ ... nswer#QA_7

In the digital domain 0 dBfs is zero dB full scale...or in other words all the bits are used if signal hits 0dBfs. Digital cannot exceed that. You could sent in more or hotter signal, but a converter doesnt have extra bits for encoding the hotter part thus will assign the max bit value. In this case sequential samples will use bit 24....and enough 24bits in a row is essentially DC...or clipping. Lower quality convertors might even clip at an earlier stage.

In analog world headroom or max output is defined by the voltage which is sent out. Circuits operating with 16v have less headroom than circuits operating(or being able to sent out more VOLTAGE) at for example 24v. This defined by the output driver's max output voltage.

Further more dBfs is showing each sample or peak values. VU is rms value. Those are two different ways of showing info about your signal. For example a very short transient can show on the peakmeters a 0dBfs value, and on a VU meter not even moving the needle. A transient has almost no pressure or rms level....like rms is: what is the average level over a timeperiod of for example 300ms

Soooo....assume led meters of scope showing the actual value of a sample. Thus...clipping is bad...that sample has used up all the bits...back off. 24 bit has a theoretical headroom of 144 db. Now...if you have a signal of registering at -48dBfs in a 24bit enviroment it is still a 16 bit signal...as in cd quality dynamic wise. So please...just back off everything cause 24 bit will be able to deliver muchos dynamics! Why dont use a guideline as in: my channels and mastermix wont exceed -6dbfs on the meters...that is a 23 bit signal...and you have 6db headroom for peaks to shoot over. This way you cant go wrong. Mixing too hot....THAT can go wrong!

Hope it sheds some light....otherwise....WIKI!
- We're freaks about gearz and methods -
More on dNa: http://dnamusic.nl

Music Manic
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Re: Are plugins 0dB VU or 0dBfs?

Post by Music Manic » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:56 pm

Yes thanks for the additional info. So VU is the rms value of the dBfs scale and has nothing to do with 0 DbVU.

Btw analogue mode on your master compressor is beautiful. Adds a slight shine and lifts the whole mix.

Did you get around to developing a stereo recorder for Scope in the way VDat records?

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RA
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Re: Are plugins 0dB VU or 0dBfs?

Post by RA » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:00 am

Sad to say the stereo recorder didnt work out. Luckily more than enough other ways to record...but it would have been nice. The vdat is a very complex plu internally.

As i hear SC contacted one of the original mastermind programmers of scope for recoding the whole scope core to 64bit. But....if it ever comes out it will take a while so dont get your hopes too high. Just meant as a statement SC/Holger takes scope more than serious.

dBfs dBu dBV....a lot of standards...some for digital...some for analog. The first is bit related, the second is voltage related. Too complex to talk about that all in a small post here. I have a BOOK on audio metering....a book......only metering ....so you see...too complex. But....Bob katz made some good propositions...k14 standard...in short i think it is best described as...max peak levels dont exceed 0dBfs(duh,better is slightly less -0.2 dBfs). And your rms level should be around -14dBfs. If you keep this as a guideline for your mixes all will be well. Pleasant to listen to...it will have dynamics which is pleasant for your ears and on radioplay it wont be totally squashed or even less loud than other productions. If you dont have specilaised meters...just compare to other good sounding well mastered commercial productions ;)
- We're freaks about gearz and methods -
More on dNa: http://dnamusic.nl

Music Manic
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Re: Are plugins 0dB VU or 0dBfs?

Post by Music Manic » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:23 pm

Thanks for info. What is the name of your book?

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