i3 8350k

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dawman
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i3 8350k

Post by dawman » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:36 am

Think I’m going to get one of these next year.
175 bucks, runs a native set up just like I use and has lots of headroom.
Fast little sucker. Triple monitor support on X370.
I only hope they reduce motherboards to less functioned chipsets, or just keep all the excess gunk off for less money.

But can verify this Quad is as fast as Devils Canyon i7 4790k
Fill all 4 DRAM DIMMs with 4GB sticks for dirt cheap too.
16 GBs Of RAM plenty for a PC Slave....

fraz
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by fraz » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:34 am

Hello DawMan,

Your the man to try the new processors - Is it a given that Z370 is good for Scope 7?

Here's a comparison of 8350k vs 4790k

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/In ... 2384vs3935

Half the price of the 4790K so 8350k should be very good

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garyb
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by garyb » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:11 am

a given?

no.

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valis
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by valis » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:30 pm

I was going to ask exactly that, what board can we use for scope with these?

dawman
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by dawman » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:10 pm

We’ll see if X370 will work.

I use Zebra2 HZ as a benchmark.
But when looking for benchmarks the closest test to compare with Audio is Flight Simulation or single core Cinebench.

Cost for this i3 rig would be 50% less than my usual 1400 dollar builds.

Cheaper,cooler and just as fast is fine with me.

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garyb
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by garyb » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:16 pm

chances are good it will work, since the driver and the motherboards are all win10 compliant. some things have changed about the way the os and hardware interact. i don't know if this is related to the problem with 1151, but it's possible. tests need to be made. i'm glad you're willing to take the chance. i don't know what Holger's test rigs were, but i suspect they were somewhat current.

fraz
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by fraz » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:13 am

garyb wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:11 am
a given?

no.
Oh, so it's back to the Intel socket 1150 is the best choice

The chipsets after 1150 have more PCI-e lanes to the chipset. Lots of the Z370 motherboards seem to have the x1 slots. Because of this I ask a question. Shouldn't it be technically possible to get the Xite to work with Z370 chipset by just having the presence of the x1 PCI-e slots?

If a motherboard chipest does not work what is preventing it from working?

Anyway, with extra revenue from Scope 7 sales it should be good for S|C to have a greater number of chipsets fully supported over time, that is as long as it is technically possible.

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Re: i3 8350k

Post by dawman » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:57 am

Audio only requires x-amount Of bandwidth, like 250MBps bi- directional.
Making these lanes in abundance at such fast rates does NOT bring us any advantages except streaming sampled instruments from SSDs.
In my opinion ASIO has deficiencies developers don’t want to veer away from or even discuss.
At one time the i7700k using RME AIO I built for my boy had 4 x SSDs and Dual Samsung NVMe M.2 Devices.
The DAW and sample streaming tests still gagged at the usual voice and track counts.

I get far better performance using the same apps in Scope since Mixing and effects are separated.
Instead of trying to redo MIDI DAW developers need to adjust ASIO for this century, not 1990s again and again.
Better yet these endless updated business models should design their own OS.

It’s a waste of time and space asking Windows for permission over and over for something that could be run as a background service.

fraz
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by fraz » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:38 am

So what you're saying is that Steinberg and everyone else should re-write how ASIO is used.

And who should design their own OS? - The DAW makers?

But how does this explain how Z97 + 1150 equivalents work great on Scope while other chipsets do not?

Does this mean that Steinberg and Co implemented ASIO well for Z97 and 1150? - Almost by mistake?

Other audio device makers like UAD/Focusrite get their systems working on pretty much all chipets

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garyb
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by garyb » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:45 am

fraz wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:13 am
garyb wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:11 am
a given?

no.
Oh, so it's back to the Intel socket 1150 is the best choice

The chipsets after 1150 have more PCI-e lanes to the chipset. Lots of the Z370 motherboards seem to have the x1 slots. Because of this I ask a question. Shouldn't it be technically possible to get the Xite to work with Z370 chipset by just having the presence of the x1 PCI-e slots?

If a motherboard chipest does not work what is preventing it from working?

Anyway, with extra revenue from Scope 7 sales it should be good for S|C to have a greater number of chipsets fully supported over time, that is as long as it is technically possible.
this is all off the mark. x1 is not the point of anything. we do not know if 1150 is best or not, it's just the latest chipset that is CONFIRMED.

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dante
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by dante » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:59 am

So would SC test / confirm / eliminate other chipsets ? Or is it up to user guinea pigs ?

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Re: i3 8350k

Post by fraz » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:49 pm

Hello,

I thought that everybody in the know on the forum agrees that Z97 1150 works the best - at least for 5.1 - So I thought this may have carried over.

It would be good to hear from S|C to know what has been implemented to improve compatibility amongst all the various chipsets / platforms or what they have attempted to address.

So from memory of discussions here 1155 was not good for PCI cards but was good for Xite
1151 (Z170/Z270) was not good for Xite but was good for PCI cards (someone had Xite progress with Z270 but not as much as desired)
X99 was bad for Xite and lacked PCI slots anyway
Z97 / 1150 B85 etc... it seems nobody had problems
AMD AM3+ seemed good but wasn't as popular as Intel so there were fewer users (similar release date as 1155)
FM2+ AMD (maybe similar release date to 1150)

I suppose we Scopers are an understanding bunch but some communication would be great

Which systems would S|C have used when they created 5.1 and Scope 7? - Because they would need to test as they go - wouldn't they? - Is it fair to ask / speculate that the majority of testing was performed on 1150 Z97? - And this is why it works the best?

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garyb
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by garyb » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:49 pm

no, that is not why.

some designs just do not work properly for this type of use. when the motherboards were designed, high volume realtime use was not a priority, in fact, i doubt that the makers even considered such a thing.

i have asked Holger what rig(s) was/were used for testing there.

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Re: i3 8350k

Post by dawman » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:15 pm

I’m your Huckleberry.....

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garyb
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by garyb » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:28 pm

yes.
the only testicled one.

Huckleberries are SOOOOO popular in this part of the world....

dawman
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by dawman » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:41 pm

Yes Samuel Clemens Huckleberry Finn...
I’m going to build one in February.
First I wanna get my rig set up and get Scope 7/ M$oft W10 going.
Then do the same for all 3 rigs.
Would love a cheap 1U for live work.

I actually downloaded 16 bit versions of PLAY and Kontakt String Instruments.
Takes up half the RAM and sounds the same.

As at0m says, sometimes less is more...

Ankyu

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garyb
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by garyb » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:50 pm

ok, here is what was used for testing v7 at SC.

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-Z270-A/

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-Z270-K/

For 3 x PCI2: ASUS H81-PLUS
But can only house 16 GB RAM, for this one CPU can be Intel Core i5 4690K - 3.5 GHz with Kingston Value RAM - DDR3 - 16 GB
Top

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valis
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by valis » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:54 pm

I'm going to direct future traffic to this thread: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... 01#p333037

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Bud Weiser
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by Bud Weiser » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:00 pm

fraz wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:13 am

Oh, so it's back to the Intel socket 1150 is the best choice ...
Meanwhile I´m bored reading these questions again and again ...
The socket and the chipset are different hardware components and never was a processor socket the culprit of any non-working or only partially working computer mobo for SCOPE !
It´s the chipset alone !
fraz wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:13 am
The chipsets after 1150 have more PCI-e lanes to the chipset.
MORE PCI lanes won´t help at all since the p.ex. XITE-1 PCIe card is x1 and x1 means "only 1 lane".
So it´s compatible w/ every PCIe slot you find on any computer mobo !

The difference might be if it´s PCIe standard 1.5 or 2.0 or higher ...
But up to now, I have no clue what the XITE-1´s PCIe crad´s standard really is,- 1.5 or 2.0.
fraz wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:13 am
Lots of the Z370 motherboards seem to have the x1 slots. Because of this I ask a question. Shouldn't it be technically possible to get the Xite to work with Z370 chipset by just having the presence of the x1 PCI-e slots?

If a motherboard chipest does not work what is preventing it from working?
It came when more than 1 M.2 connectors were introduced on modern computer mobos.
The switch from z97 to z170, z270 and z370 chipsets introduced "some changes" in adressing the PCIe lanes/busses obviously.
Those changes might be unimportant for the so called "Windows sound cards", but might have significant impact to the/a "realtime DSP" card being inserted into one of the PCIe slots.
I guess, the M.2 slots (as well as Thunderbolt ?) got some more priority which was unforeseeable when XITE-1 and PCIe connection cards were designed.

For the "old" PCI thingy, that´s a different and more worst story IMO.
PCI slots disappear since a long time and when they exist, in most cases they are PCI-to-PCIe bridged.
fraz wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:13 am
Anyway, with extra revenue from Scope 7 sales it should be good for S|C to have a greater number of chipsets fully supported over time, that is as long as it is technically possible.
We can babble for a long time until someone is building a z370 system and testing in depth w/ SCOPE v7 w/ XITE-1 connected,- and/or some PCI cards inserted (in addition).

Don´t mistake S|C w/ a company like RME delivering audio/MIDI interfaces and converters only.
They have it much easier since these are Windows controlled soundcards.

I myself, I don´t hope for any evolution in this direction.
I don´t want SCOPE for pure DAW work.
I like it being some kind of self contained tone generator and/or swiss army knife audio tool I can operate without using ASIO at all.
For me, it´s all about not losing data thruput when using any of the new computer mobos/chipsets because I want the max from my XITE-1 and not only some limited data thruput via PCIe x1 and some "new" chipset.

What I really hope for is, S|C´s stock devices using (384MB) internal RAM available in XITE-1, this reducing traffic between host computer domain.
I´m pretty sure this would really be some great improvement.
And I have hope it wil come !

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

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Bud Weiser
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Re: i3 8350k

Post by Bud Weiser » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:04 pm

valis wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:54 pm
I'm going to direct future traffic to this thread: https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... 01#p333037
O.k.,- I´m "the future" now ... :D

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

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