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 Post subject: single core VSTi behaviour
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 814
Location: Springfield !
Hi,

After reading other Scope users comments on CPU's and single vs multi-core CPU's I thought I'd ask a bit more about this.

dawman mentioned Zebra using a single core rather than multiple cores for example which got me thinking about the behavior of several of these plugins in one project on a computer.

Lets say there was 4 Zebra [or what ever else] but each of the plugins was a single core CPU hog would the load be spread evenly across 4 cores if there were 4 plugs in a project?

#1 uses only this core?
#2 " "?
#3
#4

Or would these one core CPU hogs all just use core #1 for example so there is no way to spread the load?

It would be very good if there was a way to allocate one plug into one of the other cores in this scenario - Is this possible? - or is it just tough luck in such circumstances? -


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 Post subject: Re: single core VSTi behaviour
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 am
Posts: 1246
fraz wrote:
Hi,

After reading other Scope users comments on CPU's and single vs multi-core CPU's I thought I'd ask a bit more about this.

dawman mentioned Zebra using a single core rather than multiple cores for example which got me thinking about the behavior of several of these plugins in one project on a computer.

Lets say there was 4 Zebra [or what ever else] but each of the plugins was a single core CPU hog would the load be spread evenly across 4 cores if there were 4 plugs in a project?

#1 uses only this core?
#2 " "?
#3
#4

Or would these one core CPU hogs all just use core #1 for example so there is no way to spread the load?

It would be very good if there was a way to allocate one plug into one of the other cores in this scenario - Is this possible? - or is it just tough luck in such circumstances? -


It´s not that easy !

AFAIK,- any "plugin" (when posible at all) is used "standalone" as an application, that "plugin" or "application determines how many cores it will use under whatever circumstances.

When being used as a plugin inside a DAW host, the DAW host determines which ressources will be used for the project (and all the plugins used in that project) ...
Means, the DAW host spreads load across processor cores.
Some DAW apps do better, others don´t.

:)

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: single core VSTi behaviour
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 12699
Location: PROJECT WINDOW
Also to clarify....
It's Zebra2 HZ that is core locked due to the fact that it incorporates Diva's exceptional Filters.

The beauty of owning Scope DSP is your DAW Project can basically stream audio instead of adding more ones and zeros from bussing, mixing, and adding excessive FX.

Just put together my finest PC tailored for exactly what plug ins and apps I use.
Consumer boards are just full of crap I never use.
I don't need more PCI-e Lanes than what a PCI-e 1X audio card uses, and a PCI-e 2X NVMe M.2 device needs.
So the Z97 works but is overkill.

Decided to use the ASRock Rack motherboards lately.
The Z97m WS worked, but recently can't find more so settled for the ASRock H97m WS.
Stuck it inside a Supermicro CSE 512f-600B 1U Chassis.

Got 32GBs of RAM, another 250 dollar i7 4790k, 2 x 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSDs and a Plextor 512GB NVMe M.2.

Zebra2 HZ with Quad Oscillators and Dual XMF + Dual Diva Filters is a big ass patch.
On other Z97 builds it's tapping @ 90-100% of a single core with max poly.
So I use medium poly and avoid audio crackling.
On the H97 I use full polyphony and for some reason never go above 80%...?

Not sure why but it's possible the cut down version of the Z97 (H97) uses less CPU and fewer permissions as there are fewer slots, fewer lanes, and just a higher quality PCB with shorter trace lines and far less features.

This build also terminates all unused connectors from the 600watt PSU I don't use.
I use only the Chassis data cable for front panel needs, a 24pin power cable, and a 4 pin legacy HDD, with an adapter for a Y splitter to 2 x SATA Power.
All other cables were clipped and terminated to save space.

I'll share pics next week, but after years of different chassis and different chipsets, this is the most efficient use of space, low wattage high power build I have.

Omnisphere/Keyscape appears to be core locked, and samples are loaded for each multi.
This is why I use the faster M.2 for the STEAM Folder (samples).
Regular SSDs that have Kontakt streaming at the same time makes Omni slower.
I load a multi and watch the progress bar in between tunes.
The NVMe device is super fast and I rarely see the progress bar unless the Upright or C7 Grand Pianos are loaded.

The left over 2 Cores are for AcousticsampleS B5 Kontakt and Piano Teq.
Zebra2HZ is the hungriest app.
The other 3 Cores never go above 50%....

I'm thinking we can use far less feature packed motherboards/Chipsets and get better results.
Makes sense really.
Your not using 50% of this crap so try less featured chipsets.

Unfortunately that means crappier PCBs on consumer versions.
But Asus, ASRock, Gigabyte and Supermicro all have high quality workstation/Server boards using less featured chipsets.
Most have parallel DIMMs too for fitting in a 1U where fans blow front to back.
The consumer DIMM layout blocks that airflow in a 1U build.

Also, my temps using a big ass copper heat sink instead of a fan on the CPU works better too.
I aligned the fins so the triple fans blow air right through the fins.

Pretty satisfying especially since the build is much cheaper since AMD starting kicking Intel in the ass....

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: single core VSTi behaviour
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Posts: 1431
That depends on the DAW you use. For example, Ableton will assign each track to a CPU, so synth and effects are all run together on the same CPU. This works well, because communication between threads running on different CPUs takes buffers, and isn't instant. Just like ASIO communication.


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 Post subject: Re: single core VSTi behaviour
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:00 pm
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Nice about Ableton. Didn't know that.

You can use standalone version of VST. Connect to DAW with Midimate or the like. Set core and process and IO priorities in Process Lasso for DAW and standalone versions. You need to use VoiceMeeter to make Scope multi-asio to run DAW and standalones at same time. Profit.

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"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays


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 Post subject: Re: single core VSTi behaviour
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Voice meter work on XITe-1s?

I'd love to try that.
I use Bidule because latency is non existent, and you decide how to assign priorities on VSTs that aren't single core locked. MP Assign is what they call it.

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: single core VSTi behaviour
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:03 pm 
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I didn't know that about Bidule. I don't know if that would cover all the low level tweaks Process Lasso does.

As long as Xite uses Scope ASIO driver, VoiceMeeter should work. VM is free so you can give a shot.

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"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays


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 Post subject: Re: single core VSTi behaviour
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Ankyu

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: single core VSTi behaviour
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:37 pm 
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UVI Workstation I just found out is also Core locked.
Bought the B5 and finally found a VSTi of a Hammond that's pretty sweet.

They got the tonewheels down good and the Rotary options are really tweakable and authentic.

So Kontakt and PianoTeq seem to scamp overhead from Cores where Omni, Zebra and UVI are locked to and have an open core to use.
Task manager shows resources are being distributed well.

Really like these ASRock Rack motherboards.
i7 4790k is plenty of power for a DAW.
If you must have more instruments the best solution is using VEPro and add 32/64GB Slaves.
That's what XLJunkie and other guys are doing.
But they have several 128GB Machines.

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https://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/solaris-demos-1
http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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