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 Post subject: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:52 pm 
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I downloaded the trial version of Fidelizer. There was no mention of optimizing VSTs or DAWS but, after reading what it does at the Windows OS level I thought I'd give it a try since really our optimizations are limited to an extent in Windows and this seems to get to some useful things that can't be gotten to easily, if at all. I run into limitations with CPU hogs like Diva on my 2.6 Duo Quad (not so much with the I7 3.5 machine) and I've got all the optimizations set per Gary, but I was curious to see if this might do anything.

I tried it using Cantabile 3.0 as the host "media player" for Windows optimizations and I'm pretty sure I can now get a couple of more numbers of polyphony and in some cases up to Great and Divine in Diva which I could not get before without stutters, clicks, pops and noises.

I haven't done much exploration with it, as I have the trial version but I'm still not quite sure if I'm hallucinating or if this is junk science so I throw it out to the crowd. Gary, if you have a chance could you check this out and give us some feedback on this.

It seems to me that if it does what it claims, and it seems to at the basic level I'm running it, on top of Scope, it could be very useful for DAWs and other VST hosts. It might be more noticeable using the more advanced and aggressive levels it offers.

Here's the site:

Fidelizer

Here's the claims:


Give audio task more priority with dedicated core, improve low latency audio performance, and increase accuracy of clock resolution.

Take control of system responsiveness and network utilization completely by optimizing Windows multimedia scheduling platform.

Controlling Processes

Isolate core affinity of non-audio process to single dirty core and reduce its priority so it won’t hinder audio related processes.

Launch audio media software with higher priority from Administrator account by-passing permission filters for solid performance.

Managing services

Stop/Disable most system services that aren’t used in audio applications leaving only audio related services running.

Keep services for some audio applications that require network, remote control, or even security services smartly.

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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:01 am 
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it was to be expected that one day someone would have re-engineered the system, or at least try...
here are the roots: http://www.merging.com/products/pyramix/masscore

cheers, Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:36 am 
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Yes ! It looks very interesting ! But, as you said, it's dedicated to audiophiles, listeners... Do you think there is benefit for daw, vst's ?

I'd like to know better what it does exactly, to see if it could be nice for an daw dedicated computer... They are speaking about soft, services I never heard before ; things audiophiles use.

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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:58 am 
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just check out the link for Merging Technologies, there's a detailed explanation
it's about hiding one (or more) cores from the OS, so it doesn't even know of their existence
then run your DAW processing on those 'stolen' cores, which will never be interupted by any OS service whatsoever
according to Merging the difference will be dramatic to call at least
while first testing it on a core duo (irc) they ran out of virtual console strips, but not out of CPU Power

Fidelizer is probably less sophisticated, but costs not even a fraction of MassCore, which is distributed as a subscription

cheers, Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:49 pm 
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Thanks AstroMan! The Pyramix DAW looks to be also around for a while and pretty expensive, though I cannot actually find a price for it new.

I played a little more with Fidelizer and on my i5 2.6 laptop using Cantabile as the "Media Player" app, I see some gains similar to the Duo Quad. I did push some more tweaks and that caused Cantabile to freeze and the machine as well so I backed off and it's fine. I don't think it hurts, especially the core management so I'll keep it!
There's a lot you can do so one needs to experiment. I just don't have the patience for that right now; I hate the freeze, big red switch, reboot scenario. I have the basic Fidelizer "consumer level" tweaks and that does do something, a bit more polyphony and less noises.

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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:51 pm 
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Found something even better!!!

Playing around with this:

Process Lasso

Much more detailed control and even better results.

Looks like a keeper. Now "taming" all my machines. i7 laptop Win 8.1P, i5 laptop Win 7P, Core Duo Quad desktop Win7P, even a crippled AMD 1.8 laptop Win10 gets a boost (for media playback only).

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"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:27 pm 
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I've worked with this type of core isolation in Linux. In that case, cores are NOT hidden from the OS, but services, and more importantly, Interrupts/IRQs service routines, are such that you can guide what IRQ goes to that core...audio I/O only for example. The result is that you can still make system calls (like reading files from hard drive) and have communication pipes with other processes (such as getting ethernet-audio brought in to this isolated core). And you still get what's called Bare Metal performance (bare metal is when you run a program on a CPU without an OS...it's the best performance that the CPU and system could provide, which is often *WAY* past OS based performance of the same program).

It's like having a DSP sitting in your processor.


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:41 am 
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So it looks very interesting for a music dedicated computer, no !?

I'm going to have a try...

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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:43 am 
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jksuperstar wrote:
... Interrupts/IRQs service routines, are such that you can guide what IRQ goes to that core...audio I/O only for example. ...


Now that's something I we could really use in Windows but, sigh, I have not found a utility that could do that. :cry:

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"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays


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 Post subject: Process Lasso Pro for Improving Native Performance
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:54 pm 
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I set I/O Priority to "High" and Priority Class to "Above Normal" and "Exclude from ProBalance" for scope.exe. I suppose I could also limit the CPU cores as Scope shouldn't care. But with the settings in Process Lasso so far, Scope is solid. Setting my DAW (in this case, Cantabile 3.0) to Priority Class "Above Normal" and excluding it from ProBalance is all it needs to really smooth out Diva. Power setting is set to the Process Lasso "BitSum Highest Performance". Very sweet and that nice warm and fuzzy feeling of a solid rock. So far so good. :D

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"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:21 am 
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This tools look really useful. Thanks for bringing it to light here.

If I knew about this 1 year ago, I probably could've stuck with my laptop setup. But I'm pretty happy with my 1u rack now for xite.


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:51 am 
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This indeed looks VERY interesting and VERY nice! I'll definitely be trying it out. Does it work with Asio drivers? I'm surprised it's so unknown, anything that improves low-latency performance on Windows O/S should have great advertisement since so many people still have problems in that regard; and no matter how more powerfull computers become that problem still remains to varying degrees. Simply cause true correction needs to be on the Operating-System level.


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:38 pm 
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I'm 100% strictly ASIO in everything. I just wish Scope ASIO was multi-client.

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"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:54 pm 
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Cool, that's good to know Asio is fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:29 pm 
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I'm not sure how well Jack in Windows works, but if it works as it does in Linux, it will make any ASIO device multi-client, and also allow routing between software.


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:59 pm 
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Interesting.
Thanks for sharing
*ThumbsUp* ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Process Lasso Pro for Improving Native Performance
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:53 am 
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ronnie wrote:
I set I/O Priority to "High" and Priority Class to "Above Normal" and "Exclude from ProBalance" for scope.exe. I suppose I could also limit the CPU cores as Scope shouldn't care. But with the settings in Process Lasso so far, Scope is solid. Setting my DAW (in this case, Cantabile 3.0) to Priority Class "Above Normal" and excluding it from ProBalance is all it needs to really smooth out Diva. Power setting is set to the Process Lasso "BitSum Highest Performance". Very sweet and that nice warm and fuzzy feeling of a solid rock. So far so good. :D


Ronnie,

I seem to remember that you are a Cakewalk Sonar user. Have you tried any of this stuff with Sonar Platinum?

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:41 pm 
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Yah. It's all with up to date Sonar Platinum Producer.

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"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays


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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:17 pm 
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Saw Merging Technologies years ago with thier plugins and DSP Card.
AES @ Marconi Center. They walked away with awards a few times since that year.

The best you can do with Diva is disable FX and go multi core.

I use Zebra2 HZ and it does great things live like authentic looping EGs like Pete Townsend used in Baba O'Riley.
But due to its matrix it must stay on a single core.
But I use dual Diva Filters for extreme Sync Wah Wah like you can hear Edgar Winter using on Frankenstein.

What I have discovered is a CPU with a big cache is the only way to enhance the limitations of ASIO.
I first noticed limitations when I was using Hollywood Strings and the PLAY Engine.
It uses more resources than VSL and Kontakt.
SSDs were good and at 80-90,000 random iops for samples Kontakt was great, PLAY was so so.
Got an M.2 with 250,000 iops and it was only noticably better at 64 samples.
Tried 100k Phison controllers on an SSD and found the cheapest best upgrade for samples.
MyDigitalSSD 960GB SSDs are fantastic and cheap.

But still my polyphony seemed limited and the CPU was not being pegged.?

This is why I believe ASIO hits its limits and cannot get any better without reduced instructionsets on the OS Level.

Did find that 4 cores at 3.3ghz on the i7 5775C kicked the shit out of my 4ghz CPUs.
Actually performs like my i7 6700 at 4.4ghz.

I concluded it was the Crystal Well Cache.
2200mhz L4 cache of 128mb.
It was designed to use with the Iris Pro gfx.
By disabling the iGPU and using discrete graphics card that cache gets used for audio.
It prevents less trips to RAM.

My Dual Diva Filter patches never go more than 75% on a single core.
It gags a regular i7 3790S at 3.6ghz.

I figured a killer Xeon would be the way to go with 25mb L3 cache.
But way too many cores which I think suck for audio.

I do hope the Xeon 1285 v5 sells good.
They might make a killer wuad core with large cache for gamers.
But PC Sales are down so bad the trend is mobile.

This is why I built 3 PCs that I know work.
They will last me for years offline.

But theres hope.
AMD needs a big win and is rumored to have a large cache 6 core coming this winter.

Would be nice if this trick with software helps.
If not I know cache is our last hope.
4.4ghz is as far as we can go as is around 120,000 random iops.
ASIO needs some help.
SSE4+ is not the answer either.

I love cache in all forms.
Especially cash.

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 Post subject: Re: Fidelizer for Improving Native Performance ???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:20 am 
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Great info, Jimmy (as usual). I'm going to try the the Diva tips even-though my native machine is an i7 4700MQ laptop. It seems even the Skylake mobiles still only have 8MB cache and a different socket so an upgrade here may not be worth it. Hopefully the prices will come down on the desktop chips when I'm ready to build a new box for native and retire the laptop. (The freakin' noise from the laptop fans so close drives me nuts). Thanks again!

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