Hi,
So, before I got Scope, on an older PC, I had no end of struggles squashing problems with firewire interfaces on my PC. DPC Latencies (to the microsecond) are tough to control! And, that was -before- I had Scope, which is not tolerant of, as garyb calls them, "chatty" hardware protocols.
I am currently looking to change my 'primary' audio interface (Scope acts as a secondary audio interface for me).
I like the Motu 828 range (MkII / MkIII)... And there are far more 828's that interface via Firewire out there on the 2nd hand market than those sporting USB... That, and they tend to be cheaper...
I know alot more about disabling IRQ Sharing / moving slots etc. than I did before... I'm reasonably confident that I can diagnose and fix IRQ sharing with Scope should it arise. So I guess, my main question is whether Firewire interfaces (such as the Motu 828 MkII / MkIII interfaces) can indeed live "in harmony" with Scope? Does the Firewire interface act stably? Does Scope act stably, sharing a system with Firewire interfaces?
I don't have IEEE 1394 Firewire ports on my machine - and I don't have any PCI slots to spare - so I'd have to pick up a PCIe Firewire card. Any chipset preferences? I know the Texas Instruments firewire chipset has a good name... I had a VIA chipset in my old machine....
Any experiences, good or bad, will be interesting.
Thank you, Eanna
Scope and Firewire
Scope and Firewire
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...
Re: Scope and Firewire
why insist on using a lower quality interface?
Re: Scope and Firewire
I have some Eurorack modular gear, and the Motu is one of the few interfaces that is DC-coupled, so I can send CV to my modular gear from stuff like Silent Way and the many other similar software solutions for interfacing to Modular gear.
It's not necessarily lower-quality either. I can use it not just as an interface, I intend to use it as an ADAT I/O module into Scope too, using it solely for its converters on occasion.
I don't fire up Scope every session. My current 'secondary' is a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, and Scope is connected to that over SPDIF I/O.
Currently, I either just use Ableton and VSTs with the Scarlett, or route Midi into Scope and have the mix going into the Scarlett over SPDIF, or sometimes, Scope is the audio interface.
I also have a Presonus Digimax FS (8 I/O ADAT), a Rane SM82 rackmount mixer, a DBX DDP as a Limiter (I blew the Overload Indicator circuit on the Rane before), and that Focusrite Scarlett. I need to consolidate! Sick of relying on my patchbay for basic crap...
So, the Motu fits all those bills - it's a quick-and-dirty audio interface, with a hardware Limiter on two inputs, has Headphone I/O (Scarlett acts as my headphone preamp at the mo), has ADAT (with SMUX on the MkIII), and acts as a standalone mixer. And, it is DC Coupled...
Does Firewire live happily with Scope? Does Scope live happily with Firewire?
It's not necessarily lower-quality either. I can use it not just as an interface, I intend to use it as an ADAT I/O module into Scope too, using it solely for its converters on occasion.
I don't fire up Scope every session. My current 'secondary' is a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, and Scope is connected to that over SPDIF I/O.
Currently, I either just use Ableton and VSTs with the Scarlett, or route Midi into Scope and have the mix going into the Scarlett over SPDIF, or sometimes, Scope is the audio interface.
I also have a Presonus Digimax FS (8 I/O ADAT), a Rane SM82 rackmount mixer, a DBX DDP as a Limiter (I blew the Overload Indicator circuit on the Rane before), and that Focusrite Scarlett. I need to consolidate! Sick of relying on my patchbay for basic crap...
So, the Motu fits all those bills - it's a quick-and-dirty audio interface, with a hardware Limiter on two inputs, has Headphone I/O (Scarlett acts as my headphone preamp at the mo), has ADAT (with SMUX on the MkIII), and acts as a standalone mixer. And, it is DC Coupled...
Does Firewire live happily with Scope? Does Scope live happily with Firewire?
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...
Re: Scope and Firewire
sure, but just by the architecture involved, they will be two separate systems. there's no way to connect the firewire environment to the Scope environment directly, except through external hardware connections like ADAT, Analog i/os and midi.
Re: Scope and Firewire
Thanks Gary.
I think Plogue Bidule potentially could link the Motu and Scope ASIO streams ITB.
But no, I would be using the Motu and Scope as separate systems.
So I shouldn't 'fear the firewire' then...? Shouldn't have 'misgivings for the motu'...?
Anyone with concrete experience, feel free...
I think Plogue Bidule potentially could link the Motu and Scope ASIO streams ITB.
But no, I would be using the Motu and Scope as separate systems.
So I shouldn't 'fear the firewire' then...? Shouldn't have 'misgivings for the motu'...?
Anyone with concrete experience, feel free...
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...
Re: Scope and Firewire
no, there shouldn't be any issues.
there is only a problem with firewire if the firewire device shares an irq with the Scope card. if they aren't used at the same time, then the absolute worst case scenario would just involve disabling the firewire device in the device manager while Scope is running. it's not very likely that this would be necessary.
there is only a problem with firewire if the firewire device shares an irq with the Scope card. if they aren't used at the same time, then the absolute worst case scenario would just involve disabling the firewire device in the device manager while Scope is running. it's not very likely that this would be necessary.
Re: Scope and Firewire
Thanks as always Gary..
If anyone can corroborate then I appreciate it.
If anyone can corroborate then I appreciate it.
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...
Re: Scope and Firewire
I have used the MOTU 828 MkII together with SCOPE for many years. Early on, the FW chipset (TI vs. VIA) was an issue but that seems to have resolved itself as I believe all FW is TI compatible these days.
The MOTU can also be run as a standalone device, without being connected by FW, but the interface on the device is a bit tedious. However once things are set, such as which ins and outs are bussed, clock rate, etc., it stays that way.
All the analog, MIDI, ADAT and S/PDIF IOs and Wordclock are available to be routed in and out of SCOPE as you would any other hardware device, hard-cabled to SCOPE. And of course once everything is in SCOPE you can route and re-route as you like. (Beware of feedback loops).
Using the FW is good for setting up the MOTU using the CueMix utility. From there you can set the Clock and control busses. Of course with the FW via ASIO you can also see the MOTU I/Os in your DAW but you might have issues using the MOTU audio driver and SCOPE audio driver at the same time. You can disable the MOTU audio or use it in WDM mode. The MIDI drivers do not have to be disabled as they do not go over the FW. ASIO4ALL may give you the ability to use both SCOPE and MOTU as I recall. (I now use the MOTU on one system and SCOPE on another with Wordclock, MIDI and ADAT between them. But that is only because I use the MOTU machine mainly for Native VST and DAW, as it is very powerful and the SCOPE machine because SCOPE doesn't need as much horsepower. For several years I have run both on one Windows 32bit XP box with no issues. From 2003 to 2011.)
I have not had any problems with this type of setup for many years. The MOTU 828 MkII is a very well designed device, well built with excellent hardware fixtures and a lot of flexibility and capability, especially considering the current price points. The converters are truly noiseless until pumped up at the outs at ridiculously unreal volume levels. The sound and the pres are very transparent, perhaps a bit too transparent and thin for intruments, at least for me so I use a Radial Pro-48 Active Direct Box for guitar and bass which really adds that psycho-acoustic feeling and sparkle into it. I use it dry with mics as it adds no coloration at all but I am using plug-in mic modeling VSTs so I can just about use any mic that has a low noise floor. You can always re-amp the dry tracks also to suit the ears because everything is in the tracks with the expected headroom.
The amount of I/Os is impressive and using the analog outs for extra sub/mixes or routing to the studio is a bonus. The analog ins can be routed into SCOPE via ADAT preserving the number of analog channels and keeping the signal chain digital.
Make sure that the unit you purchase has a bright LED control panel as early units tended to dim over time. MOTU offered a free fix and many took advantage of it but many did not. It's a matter of convenience but it helps if you like muted light in the control room as I do. You can get the latest drivers from MOTU as well as the Cuemix utility (which lets you create, save and load configurations into the device) for the PC or Mac. Upgrading the firmware will probably not be necessary as the last upgrade was many years ago and most would have done it. In any case the upgrade, drivers and Cuemix are easy to install. You may have to re-boot a couple of times til everything sort of bakes in. Apply the usual Windows tweaks (no sleeping!) and make sure to set the Windows Audio Ports (Analog, S/PDIF, ADAT, etc.) for the MOTU to the sample rate you will be using, especially if it is more than 44KHz. This will prevent other apps (like Google or Media Player) from changing it (most of the time). In any case should you see the sample rate fluctuate, you can always reset it from the ASIO control panel, DAW or Windows Audio Control Panel.
If you are not using S/PDIF, make sure to disable it in Windows, or cut the volume on it when not in use because it can make some strange noise if it has nothing to do!
The unit also has a second FW port which can be used to daisy chain MOTU devices or connect to hard-drives, etc.
The latency is as good as it gets for outboard AD/DAs (not as good as ULLI) but not noticeable and you have several real-time monitoring options available through all the output choices.
At the current prices I don't think there is a better value out there. This is definitely a Pro grade interface IMHO.
The MOTU can also be run as a standalone device, without being connected by FW, but the interface on the device is a bit tedious. However once things are set, such as which ins and outs are bussed, clock rate, etc., it stays that way.
All the analog, MIDI, ADAT and S/PDIF IOs and Wordclock are available to be routed in and out of SCOPE as you would any other hardware device, hard-cabled to SCOPE. And of course once everything is in SCOPE you can route and re-route as you like. (Beware of feedback loops).
Using the FW is good for setting up the MOTU using the CueMix utility. From there you can set the Clock and control busses. Of course with the FW via ASIO you can also see the MOTU I/Os in your DAW but you might have issues using the MOTU audio driver and SCOPE audio driver at the same time. You can disable the MOTU audio or use it in WDM mode. The MIDI drivers do not have to be disabled as they do not go over the FW. ASIO4ALL may give you the ability to use both SCOPE and MOTU as I recall. (I now use the MOTU on one system and SCOPE on another with Wordclock, MIDI and ADAT between them. But that is only because I use the MOTU machine mainly for Native VST and DAW, as it is very powerful and the SCOPE machine because SCOPE doesn't need as much horsepower. For several years I have run both on one Windows 32bit XP box with no issues. From 2003 to 2011.)
I have not had any problems with this type of setup for many years. The MOTU 828 MkII is a very well designed device, well built with excellent hardware fixtures and a lot of flexibility and capability, especially considering the current price points. The converters are truly noiseless until pumped up at the outs at ridiculously unreal volume levels. The sound and the pres are very transparent, perhaps a bit too transparent and thin for intruments, at least for me so I use a Radial Pro-48 Active Direct Box for guitar and bass which really adds that psycho-acoustic feeling and sparkle into it. I use it dry with mics as it adds no coloration at all but I am using plug-in mic modeling VSTs so I can just about use any mic that has a low noise floor. You can always re-amp the dry tracks also to suit the ears because everything is in the tracks with the expected headroom.
The amount of I/Os is impressive and using the analog outs for extra sub/mixes or routing to the studio is a bonus. The analog ins can be routed into SCOPE via ADAT preserving the number of analog channels and keeping the signal chain digital.
Make sure that the unit you purchase has a bright LED control panel as early units tended to dim over time. MOTU offered a free fix and many took advantage of it but many did not. It's a matter of convenience but it helps if you like muted light in the control room as I do. You can get the latest drivers from MOTU as well as the Cuemix utility (which lets you create, save and load configurations into the device) for the PC or Mac. Upgrading the firmware will probably not be necessary as the last upgrade was many years ago and most would have done it. In any case the upgrade, drivers and Cuemix are easy to install. You may have to re-boot a couple of times til everything sort of bakes in. Apply the usual Windows tweaks (no sleeping!) and make sure to set the Windows Audio Ports (Analog, S/PDIF, ADAT, etc.) for the MOTU to the sample rate you will be using, especially if it is more than 44KHz. This will prevent other apps (like Google or Media Player) from changing it (most of the time). In any case should you see the sample rate fluctuate, you can always reset it from the ASIO control panel, DAW or Windows Audio Control Panel.
If you are not using S/PDIF, make sure to disable it in Windows, or cut the volume on it when not in use because it can make some strange noise if it has nothing to do!
The unit also has a second FW port which can be used to daisy chain MOTU devices or connect to hard-drives, etc.
The latency is as good as it gets for outboard AD/DAs (not as good as ULLI) but not noticeable and you have several real-time monitoring options available through all the output choices.
At the current prices I don't think there is a better value out there. This is definitely a Pro grade interface IMHO.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays
