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 Post subject: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Last year I made this track using Reason and Scope proTone, proWave and Scope mastering plugins

https://soundcloud.com/hitfoundry/x-atron

Here's the same track but made without Scope at all, just 7 instances of Reason ReSpire synth and drums all Reason Rack Extensions.

I have some conclusions but interested in others opinions.

https://soundcloud.com/hitfoundry/x-atron-respire-remix


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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Too bad you didn't do a double-blind test, but to me the Scope synths still sound deeper and richer.

G

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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:08 pm 
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WOW MAN WHAT EXCELLENT WORK!

I love this track! I mean to hear much more warmth in the scope track, really much more warmth! The scope track is unbeatable!

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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:17 am 
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Ya even allowing for the fact its only 1 native synth trying to wear many hats (Spire rocks in deft hands & it shines at EDM IMHO). Synths aside, the Scope mastered track has that indefinable depth and dimension. & Im sure you spent some time trying to equal it @native only....


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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:45 am 
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My ears must be dirty ! I find the reason one more clear, the mastering must have being different : more high frequencies. I'm trying to be as objective as possible, the Scope one is more like if there is some "glue", like all the track is going thrue a reverb. I may hear more easily all different instruments in the reason one.

To get an real idea of the different instrument sound, maybe you should record them completly dry, then add exactly same fx processors on both, exactly same mastering chain and trying to set the synths with same envelope times, oscillators, levels, etc... But this must be hard to achieve !

Maybe it's my system sound that is bad but for me the reason one sound is more pleasant. :D I can't say the opposit of what I feel...

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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:02 am 
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Jopo I think it is a kind of style dawman used to create this special sound. I think it is not really important with what synth you did this song. It is the idea and the feeling, and for me the scope version has the right feeling. This is the composition of all. Both versions are really different, but in my brain, the scope version does react more chemical energy in my brain cells than the other.

And at the end of the story, it's certainly a kind of personal taste

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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:13 am 
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I agree with you : personnal taste + personnal audio gear too !

But it could be interesting to compare 2 same projects : both made with analog synth emulations, both mixed and masterised with hardware processor emulations but one native, entierely made in a pc and the other entierely in Scope... One must only use synths & processor that exist in both system ! For devices that exist only in one of those system, trying to use the same one on both projects, with identical parameters to leave this as transparent as possible. Trying to set both with the same values and see, or better : listen to the difference.

I'm already sure that Scope mixers sound often better than in Cubase. Anyway... As I said often here, I don't see what interest there is to oppose unceasingly Scope &/or hardware against native. There are so much fantastic vst stuff that Scope will never do and so much thing one can do with Scope that are impossible with vst ! Scope is hardware but works only inside a computer, so use vst's when you need and Scope for the same reason !

Stuff like Silent Way or MuX allow to cloud even more frontiers between hardware (like Scope or synths or any) and vst's + daw. Awesome !

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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:17 am 
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I agree with you, I use all the possibilities, vst and scope and real analog and digital hardware synthesizer, and FM yamaha hardware from the 80ties are my favorites. No simulations will sound the same like the good old DX7 or DX7ii or often hated fb01 or the tg77. If you are a freak, and spend a lot of time with them. I like FM a lot, but only the originals.

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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:23 pm 
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and Scope wins! :) :)


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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:47 am 
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First of all, really nice work, but to seriously compare the two you should mix them the same. The lead on the native one is so much more in the front of the mix (with less effects as well) that it almost sounds like the Scope one if it were played on the radio. The Scope one sounds more full like a CD. It’s 2017, and we’re listening to an MP3, so you should be able to get them to sound identical. That would be a more fun game.


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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:40 am 
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Thanks @marco and @jopo / @sirius for the high praise.

@Sirius @Kitchen. I agree it's not a very scientific test - so I'll explain the brief a bit more. On ReasonTalk they conduct competitions for most new synths released. You have to use no other synths than the one in question and nothing external for sounds or production . Therefore no Scope mastering.

I also had the idea for going away on holidays to use Reason on laptop but not take XITE.

But I have never been able to obtain the depth of sound without Scope mastering so I tried to get as good as possible. In Reason I used a multiband compressor and an Ozone limiter/compressor thingy. It's quite possible I can make improvements there but so far no go. Scope is the most instant effortless way to make things sound big.

And yes it's subjective - the scope mastering (and the synths) sound much better to me, but I can understand why others would like the native one as well.

At some stage I might master the native one thru Scope - a third test. At the moment and for future I am glad to have both Scope and native .

@Sirius - good ta hear from u - are you in thAt mega Apple spaceship HQ now ?


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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:34 am 
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scope wins! fatality! :P

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 Post subject: Re: SHOWDOWN - Scope vs Native
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:56 am 
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JoPo wrote:
My ears must be dirty ! I find the reason one more clear, the mastering must have being different : more high frequencies. I'm trying to be as objective as possible, the Scope one is more like if there is some "glue", like all the track is going thrue a reverb. I may hear more easily all different instruments in the reason one...

then my ears are dirty too ;)
The tracks are hard to compare on a 1 to 1 base, the mixes are way too different.
I'd have set the original (Scope) to a another loudness balance to make it sound more pronounced, then it would clearly outperform the 'native' one.
In it's current state it comes out somewhat muffled, not showing it's full content.
At least you could sell this as a 'pure analog' recording, while the 2nd doesn't deny it's digital heritage. Not a bad thing at all, but the (original) theme was faking some past music.

better late than never, Tom :D


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