Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

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dante
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Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by dante » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:05 am

Given discussion about whether Zarg synths should be optimised for XITE it occurs to me that in some ways this is a one sided approach. Wouldn't it make sense to at least try to optimise the patches rather than just demand that the synths themselves be re-engineered ?

So, here I am starting a thread on what Zarg synths CAN do on XITE - since the other side of the coin seems to have been well covered.

I am wondering if anyone else has spent time building presets for some of the more complex Zarg synths to work on XITE ?

Here I intend to post some patches for Solaris Core. I realise not many may have Solaris Core, so I will progress this to Solaris full as well.

This first file contain 4 pads, a lead and a bass. The mission goals were simple:

1) Should work on XITE-1D
2) Should work at 48KHz
3) Should work in a Scope project that already contains basic mix/mastering devices.
4) Minimum 5 voice poly (although 6 could be sometimes reached after Scope Project optimisation prompt and wait, or Scope reload).
5) Later to also be tested to work on a 12DSP Scope PCI setup
6) Only spent 1 hour making these 6 patches.
CC-Solaris Core XITE.zip
CC-Solaris Core
(19.85 KiB) Downloaded 65 times
Last edited by dante on Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by Bud Weiser » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:41 am

dante wrote: ... this is a one sided approach.
:-?
dante wrote: Wouldn't it make sense to at least try to optimise the patches rather than just demand that the synths themselves be re-engineered ?
What do you mean w/ "optimise patches" ?
dante wrote: So, here I am starting a thread on what Zarg synths CAN do on XITE - since the other side of the coin seems to have been well covered.
O.k. I´m in ... :D
dante wrote: I am wondering if anyone else has spent time building presets for some of the more complex Zarg synths to work on XITE ?
Well, when you´ve buyed the big synths like Solaris v5 and Quantum Wave and load, it is not that easy creating patches from scratch and before learning the overall architecture of the device.
In most cases, you start loading existing patches and reverse engineer these to see what´s going on and how the device works.
That´s what we do w/ hardware synths too and in most cases the factory patches are exactly for this, demonstrating the features of the synth.
So these should load.

Unfortunately:(quotation John Bowen)
"these 2 plugins require more connections internally than the XITE system can provide, so there is no way to optimise them further. The only thing I could do would be to reduce the number of modulation options for each plug-in"
(unquote)

To me, that sounds like it´s set in stone.
The modulation OPTIONS alone, regardless if you use ´em in Solaris v5 or Quantum Wave or not, eat the ressources.
I imagine it´s like w/ the STM mixers where consumption of ressources rises when you add more busses, direct outs etc., but in case of Solaris v5 and Quantum Wave it´s not user selectable, the modulation busses and routings are in background always and cannot be removed or minimized.

I assume, building simplyfied patches saves only a small fraction of ressources if at all.

But, when you look at all the smaller ZARG synths which run better on XITE-1, you´ll recognize they also offer features Solaris v5 has, whereas Solaris v5 is the only device which has ´em all in a single device.

Will say,- you can create the simpler patches in other Zarg devices already and then no need of Solaris v5 at all.
In addition you can load several of the smaller ZARG synths and get more polyphony for layering that way.

In fact, you WANT Solaris v5 and Quantum Wave exactly for the complex patches the smaller devices cannot do.
Or the other way around,- when you ideally had a fully functional Solaris v5 running on XITE offering enough ressources p.ex., you probably won´t need any of the small ZARG synths anymore and use Solaris v5 exclusively.
dante wrote: Here I intend to post some patches for Solaris Core. I realise not many may have Solaris Core, so I will progress this to Solaris full as well.

This first file contain 4 pads, a lead and a bass. The mission goals were simple:

1) Should work on XITE-1D
But I want it working on XITE-1 too ...
dante wrote: 2) Should work at 48KHz
3) Should work in a Scope project that already contains basic mix/mastering devices.
modest demands ?
What about several polyphonic instruments in the project ?
dante wrote: 4) Minimum 5 voice poly (although 6 could be sometimes reached after Scope Project optimisation prompt and wait, or Scope reload).
Satisfied w/ 5 voices,- Prowave is your friend,- it does simpler patches pretty well.

It would be great Solaris v5 loads Solaris Core patches!!!

In fact I don´t understand, when Solaris Core and Quantum Wave SE exist,- why Xite-1 owners who buyed Solaris v5 and Quantum Wave, don´t get these "light versions" for free when it is the only solution for a hassle free workflow.

What kind of marketing strategy is behind all this?
Shall customers buy all new because there´s now a NEW "lite version" out there, the only one which (hopefully) will run flawlessly and w/ high polyphony on a XITE-1,- while the old version was never expected to run hassle free on a XITE-1?
Or,- shall the customer buy several pieces of discontinued hardware (multiple PCI cards) to get slightly better results w/ the original devices?
Probably worth a poll. :lol:

Bud

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dante
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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by dante » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:25 am

I've created this topic under 'presets and tools' and as stated, it's not about what Solaris etc should be, how complex a patch it should run, whether it should be free or marketing strategies.

Here, I am asking to build working presets. Modest or not. Then anyone else wanting to build I will amalgamate into one working set per synth.

If you want to discuss other things or make polls, how bout starting a topic under 'General Discussion'. I may reply there - or not - depending on how busy I am creating patches.

The intent here is to build patches.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by Bud Weiser » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:57 pm

dante wrote:I've
Here, I am asking to build working presets. Modest or not. Then anyone else wanting to build I will amalgamate into one working set per synth.
O.k. good luck and have fun w/ (your) simplified monophonic or duophonic patches for a monster poly-synth !

:roll:

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yayajohn
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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by yayajohn » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:34 pm

Great idea dante. I might have a few to share. Won't be back to my rig until the end of the month though.

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sunmachine
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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by sunmachine » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:08 pm

I'd suggest to group presets that are using the same modules into banks, so that preset switching within the same bank happens instantly.

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dante
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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by dante » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:43 pm

Heres the same presets I posed for 'Core' translated to full Solaris 5 version - the pads are running at 4 voice poly with ASIO, mixer and FX loaded into project as well. In general, they run at maybe 1 less voice poly than the Solaris Core.

@yaya - thanks. I look fwd to this project and hope we get a great patch bank by the end.

@sunmachine - Thanks I will check that out - not sure what a module is yet but I noticed 4 mute buttons down the bottom - are they modules ?

If anyone loads these onto full XITE-1 Id be interested in the poly count compared to XITE-1D
CC-Solaris v5 XITE.zip
Solaris On XITE-1D
(28.49 KiB) Downloaded 52 times

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yayajohn
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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by yayajohn » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:30 am

sunmachine wrote:I'd suggest to group presets that are using the same modules into banks, so that preset switching within the same bank happens instantly.

I think he meant the RD modules?

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dante
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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by dante » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:27 am

Ok - haven't used em yet - still learning... :)

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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by dante » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:31 pm

Now I'm starting to really enjoy this - was riding home on the train and remembered an awesome pad by U.K. supergroup - managed to get pretty close patching it on Solaris when I got home:

https://soundcloud.com/hitfoundry/solaris-alaska

It in this latest preset file:
CC-Solaris v5 XITE.zip
Solaris V5 XITE-1D Patches
(88.74 KiB) Downloaded 63 times

RP_001
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Re: Zarg Synths Working On XITE

Post by RP_001 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:26 am

dante wrote:
If anyone loads these onto full XITE-1 Id be interested in the poly count compared to XITE-1D
I could go up to 8/9 voices and save and recall a project with the same amount of voices without error or asking for optimizing the project. I also succeeded switching through your other presets with 6 voices and in some case 8 voices, which may take some time though so it may be "saver" reducing the amount of voices and then switching through other presets. Tested on Solaris 4.1 which, I believe, has less parameters then the 5.0 version. I will check out the 5.0 later this week.

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Re: Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by dante » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:40 am

That's impressive. I have to reduce to 2 voices just to surf the factory presets ! A good result where 4.1 might be equivalent to Solaris Core.

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Re: Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by yayajohn » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:18 pm

confirmed! Solaris 4.1 for the Xite. I was able to switch through loads of presets without a pop-up message at 6 voices.

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dante
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Re: Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by dante » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:44 am

That's a good result thanks for posting it...will include in article.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by Bud Weiser » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:51 am

yayajohn wrote:confirmed! Solaris 4.1 for the Xite. I was able to switch through loads of presets without a pop-up message at 6 voices.
When I buyed ZARG bundle there was Solaris v5 included which is installed using v5 keys for SCOPE 5.1.
I´m using XITE-1.

Now I downloaded ZARG Solaris v4.1 from Sonic Core ftp-server/software/3rd party/ZARG folder.
I hope that´s the right one, is it ?

Can we have both installed side by side (probably in separate subfolders inside SCOPE 5.1 [plugins] folder),- using Solaris v4.1 on XITE-1 /SCOPE 5.1/ Win(XP SP3) 32Bit without Solaris 4.1 installation overwriting "newer" v5 Dsp/ Sys/ TTF/ Vxd in SCOPE 5.1 [App] and [DSP] [SYS] [TTF] [VXD] folders by probably older files ?

Or do I have to deinstall/delete Zarg Solaris v5 and related files completely before, then using Solaris 4.1 only ?

Will Solaris v4.1 work w/ the same key than Solaris v5 ?

WHEN having both, v.4.1 and v5 installed, will BOTH work w/ the same key?

Bud

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dante
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Re: Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by dante » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:08 pm

I know you can run 2 different instances of Scope from same machine - I do for Scope PCI and Scope XITE since they each have their own folder theres no overwriting of anything. Not sure about the rest of your question though.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by Bud Weiser » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:12 pm

dante wrote:I know you can run 2 different instances of Scope from same machine - I do for Scope PCI and Scope XITE since they each have their own folder theres no overwriting of anything. Not sure about the rest of your question though.
Probably a misunderstanding here:

I don´t want Solaris v5 and 4.1 run simultaneously in SCOPE 5.1 environment.

I want to have both installed, but use ´em alternately, on the same machine and w/ only ONE instance of SCOPE 5.1 installed.

I have only the keys which I got when I buyed the ZARG bundle some time ago which included the key for Solaris v5 for SCOPE 5.1.

Now, when installing BOTH of the Solaris versions, do I need a separate/new Key for Solaris v4.1 or does it work w/ the v5 key ?

And when I have Solaris v5 installed already, does the installation of Solaris v4.1 overwrite Solaris v5 files (DSP etc.,- see above ...) in SCOPE 5.1 application folder/ subfolders ?

Maybe anyone tried before ...

Bud

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Re: Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by yayajohn » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:31 pm

Bud. I installed all the Zarg synths at the same time and I think I kept the newest files if there was a conflict btwn them, can't remember if it ever happened though. I believe the 5.0 keys work for 4.1 as well. When you got your Solaris keys it was listed as Zarg Orion Custom EX . You can run both at the same time or one at a time in the same Scope window.

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Re: Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by dante » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:33 pm

Not sure. But if Solaris 4.1 has the same file name as Solaris 5, you could always back up Solaris 5 first, then test if Solaris 4.1 works without messing w/ any of the DSP files. If it crashes, then you could do what I said and make 2 seperate Scope 5 installations and fully install Solaris 4.1 in it.

Maybe backup your entire Scope folder first anyway.

Ok, yayajohn replied just before me....looks like his answer is simpler than mine.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Zarg Solaris Working On XITE

Post by Bud Weiser » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:56 am

yayajohn wrote:Bud. I installed all the Zarg synths at the same time and I think I kept the newest files if there was a conflict btwn them, can't remember if it ever happened though. I believe the 5.0 keys work for 4.1 as well. When you got your Solaris keys it was listed as Zarg Orion Custom EX . You can run both at the same time or one at a time in the same Scope window.
Thank you for the reminder on "ZARG Orion Custom EX"!
I´ll check that out.

Bud

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