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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:02 pm 
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Hi Jimmy,

thanks for answering again.

1.
The easiest way for my live-switches would still be to get some Sys-Ex-Strings which can handle the plugiator...

2.
Hm - what do I use?
I play a Motif-ES-7, an S 80 (YAMAHA), and still have a 19-inch-rack filled with some 1-U-things like a KORG-SG-pro-X, a Fantom-XR, an old Matrix-1000, a Virus-Rack and I have two CREAMWARE-Synths as mentioned above. All instruments are switched by the 8x8-Midi-Matrix. The Matrix-1000-Banks are changed by Sys-Ex-String, the Motif-ES-7 needs Sys-Ex-messages for switching between Voice- and Performance-Mode (the Fantom-XR too) and for changing Voice-Banks (MOTIF-ES, S-80, Fantom-XR, Virus) I use LSB/MSB-adresses.

...every instrument that I just wrote about accepts Sys-Ex-Strings and I am sure that even the plugiator will. The problem seems to be that nobody knows anything about the Sys-Ex-thing according to the plugiator and on the other hand the plugiator does not accept LSB/MSB-Data...

But I still hope that somebody knows an answer to my question.

regards
Axel


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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:13 am 
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Hi Axel,

meyersaxel wrote:
1. The easiest way for my live-switches would still be to get some Sys-Ex-Strings which can handle the plugiator...


It's not really about getting Sysex Strings which can handle the plugiator, it's about how (if at all) the plugiator handles System Exclusive messages. The plugiator manual DOES mention Sysex, but only that you should uncheck the Sysex box in sequencers like Cubase which may have Sysex filtered by their Midi filter by default. This might suggest that the box does indeed support System Exclusive messages, but if so, I find it a bit strange that there isn't a Sysex implementation chart at the back of the User Manual. Having said that, I DO remember having to specifically request Sysex implementation charts from manufacturers in the past because they were excluded from the User Manual, even from BIG manufacturers like Roland etc, so if you haven't done so already I'd recommend contacting Use Audio with a simple request for details of the Sysex implementation.

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:53 am 
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Agreed 100%. Use Audio will provide the SysEx implementation chart.

FWIW, I avoid Bank changes and prefer a small user set of presets.
Once I have the basic Oscillator structure I desire, the envelopes, insert effects, etc. can be altered by my controllers.

I am surprised that other Pluggiator users haven't suggested a work around for this. So many nice layouts and apparent knowledge from experience of use, and no suggestions of how a simple program change message can be recieved ? Maybe it was designed for desktop on hands use only.

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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:09 pm 
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XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:
So many nice layouts and apparent knowledge from experience of use, and no suggestions of how a simple program change message can be recieved ? Maybe it was designed for desktop on hands use only.


There isn't any problem getting it to receive a simple program change message. The problem Axel is having seems to be that he wants to use his Miditemp hardware to change the currently loaded device & preset which requires 2 successive program changes with a note on/off message separating them which is awkward to do with the Miditemp unless you load it with a midi file containing the relevant midi info for the changes. I still think that could be an option, since creating & loading the required midi file/s into the Miditemp shouldn't be too difficult. I'm sure there's other options as well. FWIW I don't think Sysex would necessarily be the best way of achieving what he wants, since you wouldn't be looking at just one string, you'd still be looking at sending 2 or 3 if it's even possible to take that approach.

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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Yes I understand that consecutive move, but it is still a simple calling up of a preset he is lacking, correct?
The device seems to load the slot first...then a note message follows.
So it can't do the entire process with one move from the MIDI File player. O.K....here's what I need to know.

Does the MIDI File device also play the synths or is it just used for loading purposes?
If it is playing a MIDI file where music is being automated another message containing the program change and appropriate MIDI channel could then be inserted.
If it is being used to strictly automate loading, then another button push containing the desired preset information from the MIDI File player should do the trick I would think.

Sorry if I am so confused here, but this device is way too complicated for such a simple task to be achieved.

I am definately interested to see how, or if it is possible. I have never heard of such a difficult device before, and I have pulled my hair out w/ SysEx and Lighting controllers for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:38 am 
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Hello everyone,

I will try to tell you - in English [...] - what the MIDITEMP-MP-88-W has to do in my setup:
(my English isn't made made for technical discussion - let's see what you get and what might be misunderstood...)

I.
I play 95 - 98 % alive. Some songintroductions are done by sampling from the original recording but I even use my fingers for that and never use a sequenzing-unit.

II.
All my Synthesizers are switched local of and are receiving/ sending Midi-messages on different channels. The midi-ins and midi-outs are connected with the 8x8 in-out on the Miditemp. So I have the whole range of midiswitches, Volumeparameters, Octaves-tuning, Layers from each unit to each keyzone, splits and much more.

The Programchanges are normally done by PRG-Change and MSB-LSB for Bankselect. If an Instrument does not recognise Bank-select-messages by MSB-LSB-Numbers, I change banks by using SYS-EX-Strings. Oberheim wrote the main Sys-Ex-Strings into the manual, so did Access for the Virus, Yamaha-Motif-ES-7 is a bit more sophisticated to handel by using SYS-Ex but even that worked. Roland has the longest Sys-Ex-Strings but an editing-software that shows every parameter/ Sys-Ex-message that is clicked by editing on the Computer.

The Miditemp sets all the Synthesizers that I use for playing a song into the right mode (Voice, Performance...), defines the Octave that I play any patch in any keyzone and has to set splitpoints, a n d switches patches, banks volumes and many other parameters.

My idea - as you understood correctly - is to look at a Plugin, implemented into the plugiator as a seperated bank. If the plugins are nothing else than bankswitches, it should be possible to do the things, which were already understood by the Oberheim-Matrix-1000 in 1988. Bankselects by sending Sys-Ex.

The normal Midi-switches, that are understood by the plugiator (Prog-Chg 101-to-108 -- Note -- Prog-Chg) cause another problem for a live-playing instrumentalist: Nobody (audience, bandmembers, booking-agents...) wants to hear one single Synth-note between songs, played on any kind of gig. So I do not want to put my mixing-console down before sending two PRG-Change-switches by playing a note between those switches. That would not work in a situation where 15 songs are played in a row and any bandmember has to look at the drummer who counts to four...

Actually I don't want to think of the units which take place in any sound/ patch-mix that I did at home, when I play any kind of gig.

III.
I am already in contact with USE-AUDIO. There is a product-specialist who really takes care of my sys-ex-questions. I'm looking forward to having solved the problems during the next week (I think that's not English - grammatically seen...).
; - )

I'll write the working Strings down here, as soon as I get those strings.

Best regards
Axel


Last edited by meyersaxel on Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:00 pm
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One small extra for thoose interested by the FMagia :

Attachment:
File comment: Plugiator FMagia CC+PaT midi map
FMagia-Plugiator-07-A4.jpg
FMagia-Plugiator-07-A4.jpg [ 137.84 KiB | Viewed 2764 times ]


CheerZ


Last edited by HUROLURA on Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Cool! Thanks :)

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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:00 pm
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Any interest for the others ?

- Drum'N'Bass (almost ready)
- Vocodizer (mapping available, document to be done)
- B4000 (nothing done so far)


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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:41 am 
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Oh, yeah! :wink:
thanks a lot, I've no more time to do this...

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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:10 am 
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OK here is the Drum'N'Bass

Attachment:
File comment: Plugiator Drum'N'Bass CC+PaT midi map
Drum'N'Bass-Plugiator-08-A4.jpg
Drum'N'Bass-Plugiator-08-A4.jpg [ 163.49 KiB | Viewed 2762 times ]


CheerZ


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 Post subject: Re: Plugiator Dev MidiCC sheet for Doepfer Drehbank or similar
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:04 am 
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... and here is the Vocodizer

Attachment:
File comment: Vocodizer Plugiator Midi CC+PaT map
Vocodizer-Plugiator-04-A4.jpg
Vocodizer-Plugiator-04-A4.jpg [ 131 KiB | Viewed 2761 times ]


CheerZ


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