PHASE

[tgstgs]

as soon as you split an audiostream into 2 or more streams and mix together later->
you are dealing with phaseeffects_________

there is nothing you can FIX; sorry;
you can deal with the probl. if you are aware of it and have the knowledge what to do to get what effect;
but the only fix would be -> dont split!

the spectrum seen is the best you may get out of it -> a primitive filter;
but i aggree in most case without to care about you just get some awful distortion;

there is a filter topic somewhere at planetz;
you may check out how some primitive filters are made in sdk;
but this topic is about phase_

i cant talk about others but in all our plugs the user dont have to care about the phase;
if its on same dsp or spread over severals;
the delays between its parts are measured in realtime and compensated on the fly;
but thats another story_

all you are right:
you dont need 3000 euro+ equipment to write a good song_
you need some paper and a pencil_
if you are not able to write notes take the voicerecorder of your mobilphone and sing in the melody;

but this is just an idea_
if you want to have a product that sells you need to invest a bit more im afraid;

here would be my hint for the artist for the soundengineer and for the developer;
give your best_
and always try to get better_
there is no top_
this could be the small difference that rise you and your work out of the masses;

good luck to all vibes

[spacef]

you don't totally get my point.
I said it's ok to mix on Scope... but if YOU tell me it is not ok, then it's not ok, simple as that.
I know your thread is technical and i agree with the maths and theory, but in a musician point of view, it's really like saying "don't mix on scope, because it sucks"...
what is the thruth about that, is the only thing i NEED to know.... because I have used scope for mixing for years, but I am ok if you tell me i've been wrong all these years and that it's possible to have only 1 mono channel... the solution is simple (and cheaper!) (also I never said you just need paper and pen to write music neither, it's not possible nowadays, but i don't care about that at all).

[maky325]

Spacef want to say that sometimes these tiny so called errors are desired as an artistic effect(not just phase there is dozen off that, clip, crosstalk), sometimes not. The choice is up to you - producer.

Which is absolutely right point of view (i support it). Artist need to make an art. That's all what he is saying.

[tgstgs]

sorry was bussy for a while with other stuff_

please let me add for the record:

there was no scope or xite in the circuit when i did the pics sorry!!
you will have this effect at ANY mixer be it HW or SW;
the phase does not care about the mixer to be used;
it only cares about brother delay remember?_
-------------------
maybe i add the comment:
'not spezifical scope/xite related true for ALL HW or SW'
-------------------

but it makes me happy that at least there is an agreement on the technical point of view and the math;
thats all what this topic is about;

with so much resonance now we maybe should go on with FeedBack structs?
course the feedforwardstructs shown so far has only a 'tiny' effect compared to feedbackstructs;

IIR vibes from vienna

[dante]

Seems to me to be as simple as what you say tgstgs - never split parts of the same signal (e.g. left and right of a stereo, or two microphone inputs from the same group of instruments) into a different path. If you do, you create yourself a potential complex scenario to fix. Better to avoid the problem in the first place, and that means knowing as much as possible about all the associated delays of the paths you're working with.

[spacef]

Just finished, yesterday, the mastering of 5 tracks of mine, in 2 different mastering studio in Paris and it cost me half a leg for all the track to do 2 or 3 different masterings.... All was mixed on Modular Mixer on Scope PCI (Scope pro), and there was not a single phase issue as I asked both studios to check any phase issue.... this is certaibnly important in a development point of view, but if you don't hear anything strange in your mix, there is probably no phase to take "that" care of when mixing in scope. I will continue not to take any special care for phase because it doesn't happen here. If it happens, you hear it obviously (or you have a problem). I don't do multi-mic recording though. i use plugs which are bigger than 2 sharc dsps too, i can split stereo channels into 2 mono ones and eq differently... nothing special happened that required special care in any of the track... I don't know xite though and if it requires all this shit as this thread tends to say (which would be unfortunate for any audio card...)