Meta modular: the routing window.

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Neutron
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Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by Neutron » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:19 pm

Some time ago i was going to suggest that synth and effects makers adopt a standard where an extra audio output and/or input is used which send a sync control signal at full audio resolution

something simple like full rail to rail output with 0 as zero for envelopes. (what you get anyways)

say you made something g with a really different modulation for the filters, you could have that connected to an output. then someone else may have made a fairly simple lfo phaser but it had an aux input, then the complex mod from the other device could control the phaser, and it would be exactly in sync.

it makes the scope routing window in to a sort of "meta modular"

speaking of modular, since the modular already has plenty of outputs and you usually use 2, its easy to make a patch that uses 3 and 4 as aux. thats where this comes in you could easy make mods controlled with 14 bit BC modular :)

from now on there will be extra inputs and outputs on the far and few between devices i make. called "aux" which can have a audio or control signal for instance "ParaDox* will have 2 aux inputs. switchable envelope follower could be added, but maybe a simple enevlope follower device for all is in order.

anyways its not hard to add it to your devices, if you are inputting to a poly synth you can put a "2nix" in there, it changes monophonic signals to be available for every note of polyphony.
if its a poly signal in your device, send it through an additional polymix to the aux out.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by sharc » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:34 pm

Interesting idea :)

Would be similar to having CV i/o's on analogue gear. In fact it would be excellent if it could be made compatible with those also. I know that's been spoken about on here in the past.

I suppose in terms of a standard it would be good to stick to what we've got already - you connect a modulation source (ie. lfo, envelope etc.) within modular to an audio out and from there you can connect to the aux mod input on compatible routing window devices like you suggest. Martin (MCCY) and others have already done some work on this front. It's definitely something I would consider for my own devices in future.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by Neutron » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:50 pm

i have a way to do that without modifying the DACs or external gear but you need to build a small op amp circuit.

basically in scope, you use a fixed high frequency, and use the control signal as an envelope generator for that high frequency.

then the electronics, it is just a very simple envelope follower that is optimized to work with that frequency.
1 or 2 chips, im slowly working on a PCB design, and maybe a kit.
If plugged in to a TRS type (that is one with +, signal and ground)) input it could even be self powered.
but could run on a small DC wallwart.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by sharc » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:28 am

Neutron wrote:I have a way to do that without modifying the DACs or external gear but you need to build a small op amp circuit.... I'm slowly working on a PCB design, and maybe a kit.
You could be onto a real winner there. It probably wouldn't sell in the thousands, but if it works well and is affordable enough, you could definitely sell a few of those.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by Neutron » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:02 am

and it could work with VSTi as well, you could probably even make a preset for some of the free synths that have decent envelopes.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by sharc » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:14 am

Neutron wrote:and it could work with VSTi as well
That would certainly increase the market :D

Open Sound Control support?

With the right software bundle to support it, that could be a really powerful CV-MIDI / MIDI-CV device.

What about the Gate signals though? and different types of CV signal?

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by sharc » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:19 am

Also you would need to minimize any risk of damaging your monitors / ears if those audio rate control signals accidentally got sent to the wrong destination.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by Neutron » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:30 am

well i want planning on that, lots of people with analog/midi already have something for midi/CV gate, this is more like something for an aux CV signal to control filters and things like that,

but it could do note CV if it could be properly calibrated. thing is the electronics can be perfect, but the software has to be outputting the right level, and the output on the converters has to be consistant and blah blah blah it would probably not be very repeatable.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by sharc » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:11 am

Neutron wrote:it could do note CV if it could be properly calibrated.
Would be nice to be able to sequence Scope synths or Modular from a TB-303 - Or in my case (since I sold the 303) an MC-202 :P

Just the CV output from Scope would be excellent though. My Kitten is getting all excited at the prospect :D
Neutron wrote:thing is the electronics can be perfect, but the software has to be outputting the right level, and the output on the converters has to be consistant and blah blah blah it would probably not be very repeatable.
True, I guess the differences between various A/D & D/A convertors would be an obstacle. Even comparing the onboard Scope i/o's to the Luna 2496 box or the A-16 Ultra you would notice subtle variation in the response / accuracy of such a system.

Possibly some sort of normalization at software level would counter this.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by sharc » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:18 am

As far as the CV output is concerned I wouldn't be too bothered by the variation, as the majority of analogue synth users expect patches to never sound exactly the same twice.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by Neutron » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:05 pm

some of this can be done wit just putting an input + "2nix" (if polyphonic) and using it as a mod source. it cost almost nothing
i have it on my new synth

as i have recently found out, outputting a dedicated control signal from polysynth is not useful. it will be good for monosynths though or effects.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by HUROLURA » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:51 am

It looks like real user interface project for the Modular: a kind of homemade Modular ASB (control surface Only).

Is this the general idea ?

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by sharc » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:00 am

I don't think that's really the idea HUROLURA, although it is an interesting option. If the resolution of the CV conversion was good enough, then a hands on analogue interface could in theory be leaps and bounds ahead of any midi controller.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by Neutron » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:46 am

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/01/1 ... aphically/

hese is something like what I have for the external gear voltage controller, but theirs only works with DC coupled converters (almost none of them)
with the advantage of not needing an external circuit.

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Re: Meta modular: the routing window.

Post by the19thbear » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:13 am

If i can control my "real" analog modular with your kit ( it had to include the ability be used as a CV for the osc though.. so it had to be pretty precise), i would defenetly buy it!
If you could get a PCB and sell kits, i'm sure you could sell alot of these!
good luck with this! and please inform us of any news!
:)

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