Midi CC# preset

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petal
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by petal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:18 pm

Also, the bug doesn't show it self until you reload a cc preset or reload a project with bugged cc's assigned in them.

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garyb
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by garyb » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:12 pm

so, i guess you need to use the notepad and list the ccs and then reassign them. definitely a pain, but not really hard. it's an argument for recording things. i know this is not helpful, but well...there it is. its a loss of some 5 minutes of life...

i've always disliked the midi preset list. it's disappointing.

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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by petal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 pm

You don't need preset lists if saving the project is fine for you. But saving a project with assigned cc's (that are bugged) will introduce the bug upon reloading the project as well.

So, if you like me develop on your scope project by adding and removing devices and cc-automation as you compose and produce, your "work around" isn't really gonna work, cause if the cc is assigned and you resave the project, the project will be bugged upon reloading.

This bug is old. You can find it in UKnow, Minimax, Prodyssey, Profit 5, ProTone, Vectron etc. (I only checked the synths and pretty much stopped using Scope this way) and it has been known by the community since back then. That Scope doesn't really have bugfree "total recall" negates the whole idea that Scope revolves around (at least for my needs): a digital studio environment with total recall.

I know that Holger is aware of the bug and that he thought he had fixed it with Scope 7. I really hope that he manages to fix it the next time around, and let that next time be soon.

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garyb
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by garyb » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:49 am

yes, as i said, i understand that it doesn't work the way you would wish it to work. as i said, it's disappointing. also, as i said, it is a good argument for composing and arranging, then recording...

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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by petal » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:17 am

Nah - The fact is, that it does not work the way it is intended to work. It is a bug Gary. You calling it "not working the way I want it to work", does not make it into "there is no bug"-case scenario.

Reloading saved projects with assigned cc's in Scope, should be something you can trust to work exactly the way it worked when you saved the project. For over 15 years, this has not been the case.
At least not for all the creamware developed flagship synths that I have tested. Don't know if this is also a problem for the mixers and plugins, as I never tested those.

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garyb
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by garyb » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:46 am

i have a lot of trouble with Windows, all versions. many of these problems are quite troublesome for me. computers have been like this for 100% of the time that i have used them, since my first Tandy 1000 with an 80186 processor. but as i said(again!), i totally understand your complaint.

bug? sure. probably not implemented correctly is more the case, but tomato/tomahto.

"not working the way you want it to work" is the reality, bug or no. what are you accomplishing? do you wanna fight? i can't afford to go to Denmark, so you'll have to come here. i'm old though. expect me to cheat.

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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by petal » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:39 pm

I'm not looking for a fight - I am puzzled though, why you are trying to downplay this issue in the first place?

Just to make sure that we are talking about the same issue - Try this simple test:

1. Load minimax v7
2. Run a simple midi-loop of notes into Minimax, so you hear it playing the default sound
3. now assign a cc to either Range or Waveform on OSC1 and notice the difference in sound and after that test the buggy functionality of the knobs.

This is just one example of the kind of buggy behavior and change in sound I'm talking about, and it is present in all major Creamware developed Synths on different parameters. On some synths more than others. It might be an issue in the mixers and plugins as well, I havn't tested those.

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garyb
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by garyb » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:05 pm

it's not an issue for mixers and fx.

when have i downplayed anything? i keep acknowledging you and your complaint.

i do think that you can do without assigning ccs to Range and/or waveform, but i also think it should work. so there.

are you humorless? are you sure you don't want to fight? i've got a spare room for guests once i'm done smacking you around with cheap shots. actually, you can visit and use the room without fisticuffs...i don't doubt you could win a fair fight, so that won't happen, jfyi...

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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by petal » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:24 pm

I am humorless - and dry...

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garyb
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by garyb » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:41 pm

well, then libations and lubrication are in order.
no need to be chapped.

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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by petal » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:48 pm

Cheers mate ;)

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by Bud Weiser » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:04 pm

petal wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 pm

This bug is old. You can find it in UKnow, Minimax, Prodyssey, Profit 5, ProTone, Vectron etc.
This is true.
I recognized already years ago when I got my Kurzweil PC3 and hoped to control several SCOPE synths simultaneously in realtime,- using the Kurz´s MIDI-zones, individual haptics like sliders incl. ribbon controller, all the pedals connected and not only pitch-/modwheel and sustain pedal.
Especially for B2003 and because the Kurz PC3 allows, I assigned a lot of non-standard MIDI CCs to control all the C/V settings, percussion settings, overdrive etc. and drawbars.
It worked as long as the project was running, but next day, all was gone.
I recreated all the s##t and resaved,- but same result.
Big time investment, big frustration.
The synths respond to the standard controllers the developer set in stone w/ SDK ... other assignments go south always.

It´s VERY important for keyboardplayers using complex MIDI setups and want to replace hardware instruments w/ SCOPE devices.
But we´re the minority it seems.
petal wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 pm
I know that Holger is aware of the bug and that he thought he had fixed it with Scope 7. I really hope that he manages to fix it the next time around, and let that next time be soon.
I also hope it will be fixed soon,- at least before I retire or die.

:)

Bud

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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by dawman » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm

Im still not sure what it is that isnt working?
Is it the synths not remembering the CC# assignments?

I havent used Scope synths since Solaris came out and eben then Prowave and SpaceF MultiSynth, Solaris, etc. All worked fine.

I use the mixers and FX so Ive never seen this, but please explain to me what is a bug and how you save a bugged project?

I didnt like the way Mixer Preset recalls worked so I tried Project Preset List, which is a snapshot recall of everything per project.
Im thinking using this would work, it actually recalls different MIDI CC# assignments per preset.

Ibe told people about this decice for years, I find its most useful for resetting mixer AUX, Channels, etc. fantastic.
No need for my controller to reset the mixers levels, it always defaults so when my controller comes on only the faders and knobs I need on that particular song are controlled. All others are ser to zero or mute.

PRJ Preset List is awesome, only works on channel 1 but no big deal there.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by Bud Weiser » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:33 pm

dawman wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm
Im still not sure what it is that isnt working?
Is it the synths not remembering the CC# assignments?
^^^^^
THIS !
dawman wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm
I havent used Scope synths since Solaris came out and eben then Prowave and SpaceF MultiSynth, Solaris, etc. All worked fine.
Well, not for me,- and I dunno why.
It was on my old(er) system, Win XP SP3 and w/ SCOPE 5.1 though ...

I´ll try again w/ the new system ...
The machine w/ AsRock Z97 runs fine,- actually I´m typing on it and use it w/ internal HD-audio/ASIO4All, NI and Reason just to go thru these native s##t for some learning purposes,- but I don´t have SCOPE v7 x64 installed up to now.

It´s because the old machine is somewhere in a box between all the cases fllled w/ gear and since I had to move,- and in that machine, there´s the SCOPE PCIe card and it´s actually hard for me to pull it out w/ my mobility issues and w/o help.
Never live out in the sticks ...
My best friend, helper and service tech,- he dropped into a hidden well-pit on another estate and broke several ribs.
He´s livin´ about 20 miles away and cannot drive,- so I´m screwed for the upcoming weeks.

I wondered if it would be easier buying another PCIe card from S|C. :wink:
dawman wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm
I use the mixers and FX so Ive never seen this, but please explain to me what is a bug and how you save a bugged project?
Projects aren´t bugged.
With the synths, you have some controllers set in stone by SDK, but when you assign other controllers in addition, these are forgotten next day when you load the same project again,- regardless of saving in the MIDI presets folders.

When I got the Kurzweil PC361, offering 16 zones in performance mode, I made a SCOPE setup inside the Kurzweil.
Several synths incl. Minimax, Prodyssey, YouKnow7, Profit5 and B2003.
The latter needed the most assignments,- for the PC3 sliders acting as drawbars, perc. on/off and modes, same for CV, overdrive (and leslie),- even I used an ext. sim at that time in addition.
It all worked perfect as long as SCOPE was up and I saved MIDI presets and the project itself by nature.
Next day, all was gone except the controllers the synths respond to by default.
dawman wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm
I didnt like the way Mixer Preset recalls worked so I tried Project Preset List, which is a snapshot recall of everything per project.
Im thinking using this would work, it actually recalls different MIDI CC# assignments per preset.
I have this preset list in my focus,- stored a lot you posted here.
Will try all relatively soon, I hope (see above) ...
dawman wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 pm
Ibe told people about this decice for years, I find its most useful for resetting mixer AUX, Channels, etc. fantastic.
No need for my controller to reset the mixers levels, it always defaults so when my controller comes on only the faders and knobs I need on that particular song are controlled. All others are ser to zero or mute.

PRJ Preset List is awesome, only works on channel 1 but no big deal there.
Aehmm,- what does "works only on channel 1" mean ?
MIDI channel #1 ?

Well, if that´s correct, it works for a mixer but not for several synths/samplers,- no ?

Anyway,- I´ll use SCOPE like you do, for mixer and FX, possibly one or the other synth too (when these work w/ MIDI CC and program changes),- and wait for SCOPE v7.1 and see what will be improved.

I don´t sell my XITE-1 which I think is a unique piece of hardware gear, just only waiting for the improvements, possibly step-by-step.
I´m pretty sure no other company will come up w/ this kind of box housing so many SHARC DSPs and getting the sync done.
Once the software is able using all it´s muscles, usage of internal RAM included, it will be hard to beat.

But w/ that damn VST3 progress, I really hope SCOPE synths won´t lose MIDI preset banks and program changes once imrpoved VSTIM will be available in a separate app.

:)

Bud

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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by dawman » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:01 pm

I see what youre talking about.

Ive had to right click on a knob or slider on dNa Rack FX, older version, and it wouldnt come on until I disabled and reassigned the same CC again.

It was Pitch/chorus rate because on all synth vibrato/wheel stuff I want wide fat shit, not a single sine wave, so I modulate everything including rate and depth

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Spielraum
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by Spielraum » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:39 am

taken from life...

...
changelog "InJedemSiebtenEi.dev"
+ Project Explorer re-sorted (DeBUG: MidiPreset CC assignment)
> Structure in ProjectExplore must be adhered to in order to save "MidiCtrlInverter"
...


...OK, want to say,
module will created (assigned) or deleted (unassigned)
if the structure tree is not created correctly, then the module is created correctly but stored incorrectly in the preset. I have seen this case in a classic switching circuit, act in the two pads.
after the correction, the assignments (new modules) are stored correctly.
it behaves like a moduleloader + routing recorder,
if the routing recorder does not find the pads because the module has been moved...
dear developer, check your module structure with the "control ranger" + "midi-preset", you can follow the module "MidiCtrlInverter" well, but it takes a lot of hard work,
but i like to support you in the beta test 8)

~~~~
wishlist scopy doo
it would be great if the MidiCtrl inverter pads were also operable, we could use the "Parameter Ranger"...

>MidiChannel
>>Ctrl_IO_7Bit
+ MidiCtrlInverter(CC-Nr) (Module wird mit MidiZuweisung angelegt)
Pads:
[x] Val (hier erfolgt die Connection zum ZielParameter)
>Curve
>Intensity
[x] Min (check Array Switches, if missing, then create pads and set to array val min)
[x] Max (check Array Switches, if missing, then create pads and set to array val max)
>Invert
>Step
>Disabled
[x] CtrlNr (CC assignment: -1 standard, (0) 1-119 defined, -2 inactive (set -2 if result would be erroneous))
>ModRange
>BroadCast
>NormVal
>ClipOffset
~~~~

final question:
where is the sdk-logic-service-manual, or sdk-develope-changelog-history.
here we find the programming background to this phenomenon, i`m sure!
\o/
Last edited by Spielraum on Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:20 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Spielraum
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by Spielraum » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:11 am

should also be known:

CC assignments can only be saved,
if the values in the device-master presetlist can also be stored.
otherwise, the CC assignments can only be saved in Scope.pro or in the device (sdk) or device+"ReSave-function" (e.g M1-4) itself.

this flexibility is truly impressive!
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Spielraum
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by Spielraum » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:17 am

next developer-step:

check your Power-Switch-BUG:
Voice set to "0", will broken the connection/ convert to C0-119
after set Voice back from "0" to ">0"
> GUI is runnig (knob,fader,txt), but sound will not edit :(
you must CC ReConnect, or ReLoad Midi-Preset!
i found this bug in so many devices, but why...

Voice "0><0" DeBUG:
"Ctrl_IO_7Bit", set from dynamic to fixed voice!
> Attribute
>> Voice: 1

~~ beta test request?, gladly 8) strict and confidential

"...a small step for developer is a big step for synthesist-mankind"
Last edited by Spielraum on Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by borg » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:24 am

Spielraum,

I have an idea what you're talking about, but don't understand any of it! However, keep up the good work! It is appreciated!
andy
the lunatics are in the hall

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Spielraum
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Re: Midi CC# preset

Post by Spielraum » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:31 am

like to say:
SC is not always the source of mourning, also 3Partys must disciplined ;)
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