Scope 7

Planet Z Announcements

Moderators: valis, garyb

User avatar
rhythmaster
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Danube Town
Contact:

Re: Scope 7

Post by rhythmaster » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:14 pm

dante wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:05 pm
rhythmaster wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:03 am
dante wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:42 pm


Have u tried MASTER IT EQ LT2.zip from http://www.digitalaudiosoft.com/ => Support => User Area ? It works without COEF11
Yes that works. Thanks a lot. But it would be great to see that DAS COEF11 be fixed. Does Digital Audio Soft still exist?
But LEGEND still not working.
On my system and others, a Microsoft KB update to Windows 8.x x64 broke the use DAS COEFF11. I doubt on systems inheriting that KB code that it will be fixed (that includes my current Win8 x64, Win10 x64, Scope 5.1 and Scope 7). C350L and MasterIT Lite don't use COEF11 so will work on all OS'es. The non COEFF versions of DAS plugs are the definitive solution to that particular problem and was built though sheer determination and no remuneration to help us even though the DAS team member was ill so full credit there.

You have to take into account that the plugs were built around COEF11 for a reason of improvement on what was available on Scope for that particular math (so much so that Brainworx wanted to use that particular IP at the time). Microsoft breaking that means it can no longer be used for that purpose so that particular winning combination of Scope and Native math is broken. It wont happen even if the plug was totally recoded from scratch to use just Scope DSP.
Thanks for clarification :)
XITE-1, Cubase Pro 9.5, UVI, Arturia, Korg Legacy Collection, NI Komplete Ultimate 11, D16 group, Meldaproduction, Waves - WIN 10 64-bit
http://www.facebook.com/harryharrisFACE

User avatar
valis
Posts: 4566
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Scope 7

Post by valis » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:22 pm

valis wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:40 pm
Is BNC wordclock broken for Xite, Scope or both?
The reason I'm asking is because my wordclock card doesn't show up *at all*, and I would guess this is the bug and it affects Scope?

I do see a 'Src 6' & 'Src 7' attached to the first Pulasr2 card, and I've never seen that before.

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21588
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Scope 7

Post by garyb » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:31 pm

src 6 and 7 has been what it's been for a while, as i r...

User avatar
valis
Posts: 4566
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Scope 7

Post by valis » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:15 pm

Could be, though I don't recall that in 5.1 specifically I did use v4/3.1 much much more.

However I have no red 'led' light next to either Src, nor will it sync to those.

User avatar
krizrox
Posts: 1322
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Elgin, IL USA
Contact:

Re: Scope 7

Post by krizrox » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:45 am

valis wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:22 pm
valis wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:40 pm
Is BNC wordclock broken for Xite, Scope or both?
The reason I'm asking is because my wordclock card doesn't show up *at all*, and I would guess this is the bug and it affects Scope?

I do see a 'Src 6' & 'Src 7' attached to the first Pulasr2 card, and I've never seen that before.
As far as XITE/A16 is concerned, BNC word clock works fine with V5.1 Scope. It's broken with Scope 7. I'm sure this will be addressed in the next update. Couldn't tell ya about the Pulsar/Scope cards since I never used them like that.

User avatar
Bud Weiser
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 am
Location: nowhere land

Re: Scope 7

Post by Bud Weiser » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:18 am

krizrox wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:45 am

As far as XITE/A16 is concerned, BNC word clock works fine with V5.1 Scope. It's broken with Scope 7.
Did you also try w/ a single A16 (Ultra) and XITE-1, using Z-Link and/or ADAT only, no BNC connected at all ?
Does that work at least, SCOPE 7 32Bit and/or 64Bit ?

I understand, when using both,- Z-Link w/ A16 (Ultra) and (an)other ADAT converter(s) in addition, just to make usage of all the available I/O channels,- BNC wordclock and a masterclock unit is essential. Right ?
So, as long as the upcoming SCOPEv7 update isn´t released, it´s impossible creating such setup ?

I´m asking ´cause I´m about buying more gear expanding I/Os for my rig, w/ SCOPE v7 & XITE-1 being the central pieces of the rig making all that front-end analog (line) mixers obsolete,- hopefully.

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

User avatar
yayajohn
Posts: 1069
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:01 pm
Location: Everywhere....Nowhere

Re: Scope 7

Post by yayajohn » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:47 am

Bud; My config uses most of the I/O's of the Xite-1 and I haven't noticed any clock issues. (rate locks solid every time and no noticeable pops or clicks)
Here is what I have:
Xite-1 - Slave
Presonus Digimax FS - Master (ADAT to Xite-1 ADAT A)
A16U - Master (Z-Link to to Xite-1)
Scope PCI in separate computer - Slave (ADAT B to/from Xite-1)
TC Fireworx - Slave (AES to Xite-1)

Technically I'm not sure if this config is really supposed to work but, well it does seem to from what I've experienced.
Granted, I haven't run any bench tests and I am only using 44.1 so maybe higher reso will break it, don't know.

At any rate, at least you can use the equipment until the fix comes.

User avatar
krizrox
Posts: 1322
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Elgin, IL USA
Contact:

Re: Scope 7

Post by krizrox » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:55 am

Bud Weiser wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:18 am
krizrox wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:45 am

As far as XITE/A16 is concerned, BNC word clock works fine with V5.1 Scope. It's broken with Scope 7.
Did you also try w/ a single A16 (Ultra) and XITE-1, using Z-Link and/or ADAT only, no BNC connected at all ?
Does that work at least, SCOPE 7 32Bit and/or 64Bit ?

I understand, when using both,- Z-Link w/ A16 (Ultra) and (an)other ADAT converter(s) in addition, just to make usage of all the available I/O channels,- BNC wordclock and a masterclock unit is essential. Right ?
So, as long as the upcoming SCOPEv7 update isn´t released, it´s impossible creating such setup ?

I´m asking ´cause I´m about buying more gear expanding I/Os for my rig, w/ SCOPE v7 & XITE-1 being the central pieces of the rig making all that front-end analog (line) mixers obsolete,- hopefully.

:)

Bud
No, I have to admit I didn't go beyond the simple testing with the ADAT/BNC clock from the A16 Ultra. I used to run my system with Z-Link only, but the difference in quality from that to ADAT/BNC was noticeable enough to never go back. This is just from a historical perspective: I ran Z-Link only (two Firewire cables from my A16Ultra) as my standard setup literally from day one going all the way back to my original Z-Link configured Pulsar cards. I remember asking about wordclock connectivity when I first got the A16/Scope/Pulsar setup but I didn't have the optional wordclock card so there was no way to test it like that. It seemed like the forum responses that came back at the time were "Z-Link only is fine. No word clock needed" (or even possible since Z-Link provided it's own sync signal). So that's how I ran for many years. I guess my ears just got used to the way it sounded. Never suspected it could ever be better than that. But when XITE arrived, I now had the ability to test the wordclock setup and I noticed a real clear advantage right away. The low end seemed a lot tighter - overall the sound stage seemed, or felt, more 3 dimensional and just tighter overall. The difference, to my ears, was remarkable. At first I couldn't tell what I was hearing. It took a little while for reality to kick in. I wasn't going back lol. My A16 provides the wordclock. It is set to master. I don't use a 3rd-party clock. Although I've considered buying one just to hear the difference.

I mean... I could try a quicky experiment to see if the system works with ADAT/Z-Link and NO wordclock but since I have no intention of ever running it like that again, this would only be to answer you guys' questions. We could also just assume as long as your're not running Scope 7 in slave mode, it probably works fine. I'd have to reinstall Scope 7.

PS - I just remembered something. There was more to this wordclock story than just curiosity. I was having problems with connectivity between my A16 and XITE. There was a rather long-winded thread dating back about 3 years ago describing all this. If I remember correctly, I was experiencing random pops and clicks across many channels with both Z-Link and ADAT communication. I tried all sorts of remedies (including reinstalling the OS and programs from scratch). Others were having similar problems. The word clock cable was almost a last resort that I think Gary B suggested. Amazingly it not only solved the original problem but made my entire system sound better.
Last edited by krizrox on Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
yayajohn
Posts: 1069
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:01 pm
Location: Everywhere....Nowhere

Re: Scope 7

Post by yayajohn » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:22 am

Well that's an interesting bit of info there krizrox. Not sure if I would even hear the difference with my equipment and the way I use it but it certainly gives me something to consider in the future.
I had always thought if it locked to a source then because it is digital then it was good. clock=clock?
But apparently all clocks are not equal? Time to educate myself a little more on the subject.
Oh well at any rate it will be fun to mess around with the BNC connections.
That's all I need is more wires in my spaghetti mess :lol:

User avatar
krizrox
Posts: 1322
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Elgin, IL USA
Contact:

Re: Scope 7

Post by krizrox » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:20 am

There have been shoot-outs with various master clock products over the years and the results always seemed to indicate the better the clock the better the sound. But I've also seen reviews that conflicted with that viewpoint. The question was whether it was better to clock from an external device vs in internal clocking circuit. I certainly am no expert on clocking but in my case the results were noticeable. The meager cost of a wordclock cable was all it took to convince me. I might be able to wrestle some additional improvements with a better clock but it seems the "clock" market is smaller than before. The Big Ben isn't even a product anymore. Those Orion atomic clocks cost more than my life lol

User avatar
valis
Posts: 4566
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Scope 7

Post by valis » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:46 pm

If BNC is broken in 7 but works in 5.1, can we identify the relevant files (like has happened with STS etc) and package them up into a zip for all to use? Gary?

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21588
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Scope 7

Post by garyb » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:59 pm

maybe. it's one of the things that i want to test, but haven't gotten to yet.
anyone who has the XITE-1 v5.1 wordclock pep files can certainly try them...

Wordclock-XITE.zip
(146.67 KiB) Downloaded 19 times

User avatar
valis
Posts: 4566
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Scope 7

Post by valis » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:27 pm

What about for non-Xite?

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21588
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Scope 7

Post by garyb » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:33 pm

works on PCI cards here...

User avatar
Bud Weiser
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 am
Location: nowhere land

Re: Scope 7

Post by Bud Weiser » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:53 pm

yayajohn wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:47 am
...
Here is what I have:
Xite-1 - Slave
Presonus Digimax FS - Master (ADAT to Xite-1 ADAT A)
A16U - Master (Z-Link to to Xite-1)
Scope PCI in separate computer - Slave (ADAT B to/from Xite-1)
TC Fireworx - Slave (AES to Xite-1)

Technically I'm not sure if this config is really supposed to work but, well it does seem to from what I've experienced.
Granted, I haven't run any bench tests and I am only using 44.1 so maybe higher reso will break it, don't know.
Thx for posting ... interesting setup,-
I wonder why you use 2 masters and why you use XITE-1 as slave.
I don´t have an A16U atm, but will have one soon.
It´s a older machine than XITE-1 and from my experience, XITE-1´s clock should be on par if not better than the A16U clock because it´s a younger design.
OTOH, I don´t have much experience clocking 5 or more digital devices in a chain up to now, but I´ll have to in future.

I never used a master clock before, but think it will be the best way.
yayajohn wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:47 am
At any rate, at least you can use the equipment until the fix comes.
For the time being, I´ll be fine w/ XITE-1 as master and A16U as slave, all connected and synced via Z-Link then.
Before I go further,- adding my RME ADI-8 Pro and SCOPE PCI again,- I´ll buy parts and build a new machine ...
When that´s done, I imagine buying a Mutec MC3+,- or maybe the cheapest of all,- the ART SyncGen.
The latter has surprisingly good customer reviews @Thoman and the Mutec is great anyway, but 4x more expensive though.
I don´t believe the highest priced clock generators are the best always.

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

User avatar
Bud Weiser
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 am
Location: nowhere land

Re: Scope 7

Post by Bud Weiser » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:02 pm

krizrox wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:55 am

...

PS -
... I was having problems with connectivity between my A16 and XITE.
... If I remember correctly, I was experiencing random pops and clicks across many channels with both Z-Link and ADAT communication.
... The word clock cable was almost a last resort that I think Gary B suggested.
Amazingly it not only solved the original problem but made my entire system sound better.
Hi !

I´ve read it all, thx for reply !

But the above was the most interesting info.
Yep, Gary is the man !

The WC cable ...
Do you mean the quality of the cable,- or was it broken ?
I guess you bought new ones,- which brand ?
I also guess all have 75 Ohms when they are BNC-WC cables.
So what makes different quality ?

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

User avatar
Bud Weiser
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 am
Location: nowhere land

Re: Scope 7

Post by Bud Weiser » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:19 pm

krizrox wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:20 am
... I might be able to wrestle some additional improvements with a better clock but it seems the "clock" market is smaller than before. The Big Ben isn't even a product anymore. Those Orion atomic clocks cost more than my life lol
I´d start w/ the cheapest because it will be the easiest to resale and see how it works,- ART SyncGen.
If it´s not soooo satisfying as expected, I´d sell it to an amateur and buy a Mutec MC3+ or a Rosendahl.
I´m pretty sure the Mutec does the job pretty well.
The Mutec is affordable,- most Rosendahls cost more.

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

dawman
Posts: 13150
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: Scope 7

Post by dawman » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:08 pm

Muted allows serious looping tricks on ADA8200s A16 and TC Fireworx cascaded.

User avatar
krizrox
Posts: 1322
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Elgin, IL USA
Contact:

Re: Scope 7

Post by krizrox » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:51 am

Bud Weiser wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:02 pm
krizrox wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:55 am

...

PS -
... I was having problems with connectivity between my A16 and XITE.
... If I remember correctly, I was experiencing random pops and clicks across many channels with both Z-Link and ADAT communication.
... The word clock cable was almost a last resort that I think Gary B suggested.
Amazingly it not only solved the original problem but made my entire system sound better.
Hi !

I´ve read it all, thx for reply !

But the above was the most interesting info.
Yep, Gary is the man !

The WC cable ...
Do you mean the quality of the cable,- or was it broken ?
I guess you bought new ones,- which brand ?
I also guess all have 75 Ohms when they are BNC-WC cables.
So what makes different quality ?

:)

Bud
I meant just using a wordclock cable period. Truth be told I had never used one before. I openly admit ignorance on the subject. I bought a cable from - I don't even remember now. Might have been Musicians Friend or Sweetwater. It wasn't the cheapest but it wasn't the most expensive either. I just figured a good mid-range priced cable should work fine. It was nothing but a last ditch experiment anyway. I had no idea if it was going to fix the original problem. Seemed like a long-shot to me at the time but I figured for the price of a cable it was worth a try.

dawman
Posts: 13150
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: Scope 7

Post by dawman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:00 pm

Is there a list of all the synths, effects and mixers.
Or a list of devices that has been upgraded.

Ankyu

Post Reply