ScopeSync public launch!

[dawman]

Congrats Will.
I am very grateful for Scope Sync.
Someday it will be used in all of my projects.
Incredible concept....

Cheerz

[TOM.DJ]

Finally! Thanks guys!

[yayajohn]

Will; I hope you and Sharc keep working on this. I have finally had some time to really dig into this and it is fabulous.
I have been working the past 2 weeks on a fairly good sized patch and hopefully will complete it soon and post. Sorry for all the stupid questions on the BC forum
I agree with you, it doesn't look like a whole lot of people have really taken to this and i'm not sure why. The tutorials are great and the concepts are not hard to learn. When I finish I plan on posting some audio demos, hopefully some others will too to draft some more interest in this.

[JoPo]

Also, apart from a few individuals, there's not been a huge amount of interest.

First, let me say that you made an incredible work and you approach is brilliant.

But I'd like also to try to find some explanation about the 'not that much' huge amount of interest. It's not only critisism, it's also, perhaps, to think about ScopeSync, to improve anything...

- It works only thru Modular and it mays be difficult to use and to comprehend.

- The number one reason I don't use it often is the same as 14bit midi data : it is not possible to edit in a daw the data you send to Scope thru it. Editing like midi controler in a pianoroll would be the reason for me to use it all the time.

- A so amazing feature should be intergrated into Scope for use with all devices. (Ok, I know, you said your purpose is to improve what we already have... )

Voilà.. If ScopeSync would "overtake" the second difficulty, it would be fantastic !

[w_ellis]

Thanks for the good feedback guys. We know there's a long way to go before it's a straightforward thing for all users and hopefully the OSC version will be another step along that road.

I was surprised that you find it difficult to edit in DAW though jopo, as I think it's even easier than working with regular MIDI. All of the DAWs have really good handling for VST automation, through external (MIDI usually) control, recording mouse/keyboard activity or just drawing in lines/curves.

What we really need for it to take off is more developer and Sonic|Core engagement, as that will allow it to be more tightly integrated and featured in more devices. There's nothing stopping developers building devices around it today (that's how the SS128A exists), although this will be even easier when we release a pre-built SDK module for it.

[JoPo]

I was surprised that you find it difficult to edit in DAW though jopo, as I think it's even easier than working with regular MIDI. All of the DAWs have really good handling for VST automation, through external (MIDI usually) control, recording mouse/keyboard activity or just drawing in lines/curves.

But ? What ? How ? Do you mean I just need to automate some gain curve to make Scope sync control ?? I understood it follows dynamic curve or something like that... Please ! Give me a video link or some explanation to how to edit thru ScopeSync... And sorry if I (again) missed something...

[w_ellis]

Did you follow this video to get the VST running in your host? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eDtE70EtD0

Once you have that going, it's just a case of using the regular VST automation features. If you're stuck, let me know what DAW you're using and I'll see if I can give you some pointers.

[JoPo]

Yes I followed all the video ! Of course : I was not abble to do anything without them ! I use Cubase. Now I must make some automation tests.

Many thanks, Mr Ellis..

[w_ellis]

Simon uses Cubase, so he'll be able to help if you get stuck with that. Hopefully it should just work though

[JoPo]

I was going to try automation but on my new pc (not yet tried ScopeSync with it) , when I drag the ScopeSync module 'SS 128a' into modular, I get a 'can't find dsp file ScopeSync 1.01'...

It's strange because I don't remember an issue like that, the 1° time I tried ScopeSync on my ancient pc. And I went on the dsp folder of the ancient pc but I don't find any ScopeSync 1.01.dsp......


So .... I would say .... HELP !!

[JoPo]

Oh ! But I just found a 'ScopeSync 1.01.dll' file ! all'aiuto !

[JoPo]

Re - Oooops !!

I know what happend ! I installed ScopeSync but I didn't reload Scope ! Everything is fine, now... Sorry ....

..... 5 mn later ..... Ok ! It works perfectly with cubase automation.


Excellent. I really hope we will be abble to use ScopeSync in other devices, not only in Modular, some day.. For instance, I would like to control the mixer with ScopeSync accuracy ! And all parameter I need to control and automatize.....

But it's really easy to use. And I think that now, when I need a very accuracy automation, I'll do it thru Modular & ScopeSync. I need precision not that much on level automation but on timing ! Scope midi timing is not very good ! Especialy when sending a lot of midi controler data together !

Thanks a lot, Will !

[vascomusic]

I totally agree with JoPo.
Scope midi timing is far from what it should be
I use the sequencer midi module and it looks like that midi bus can't handle very much midi notes in a short amount of time. I know it's possible to have good midi timing with external midi equipment with a lot more midi notes at the same time.

It would be great if you can make a ScopeSync VSTi that also would transfer midi notes to Scope/SS128a for better timing

[JoPo]

That would be great to allow notes to transit via ScopeSync indeed ! Maybe Will already think about it for a next update ? But I believe it's a completly big new ScopeSync feature ! And it must do a huge work !

Vasco --> I've found some way to optimize the midi timing issue in Scope : you must send to Scope only the needed midi data (of course, it's not always possible and maybe you have already thought of it). - If you play a midi track to any device out of Scope but you need to control some Scope knobs / fader of the sound that produce that device you're mixing in Scope ; and the midi data for that control is on the same midi track of your DAW, just filter it : send into Scope ONLY the midi controler of the Scope knob. (I'm not sure if any body may understand my last sentence...)

You can find more explanations of what I try to say here :
http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php ... 8&p=313510

In cubase, I use the 'transformer' midi plugin to prevent any unneeded midi data to enter into Scope. In that way, you can limit the timing issues. Of course, you can't avoid all timing issues if you're playing a Scope synth with a lot of midi control... I'm not sure a feature like 'transformer' exists in all DAW but it's essential to me.

I think those timing issues should be upon the issue list for SC to fix because it's very difficult to automate in a accuracy way some complicated track passage. But I remember a discussion I had with Ralph (the 1° one !) 7 or 8 years ago and he was fully aware of the problem.

An other way to prevent midi timing issue is to record in audio the complicated track, and only that one but after, you can't modify it anymore.

Aaah ! Scope 6 ! The issuance to all our ills !

[w_ellis]

Interestingly, MIDI pass-through existed in earlier (Max for Live) versions of ScopeSync and was (in some cases) marginally better than Scope's MIDI timing, but did add the audio latency and could fall behind under very heavy load (just like MIDI). We chose to retire the feature when building the VST version, as it was more faff for users and nasty to code.

I think it may not be something that's easy to come up with a really good solution for in reality, as I think Scope uses built-in capabilities of the Sharc chips to move data back and forth from the host operating system.

I wonder whether the best MIDI timing for Scope would come from having a sound card with good MIDI timing and then hooking it up to the hardware MIDI connections on your Scope card/Xite? As far as I can tell, the MIDI connection that way to the Sharc chips goes via a different (hardware) route. Should be easy enough to create a test for. Dante: up your street?

[vascomusic]

I wonder whether the best MIDI timing for Scope would come from having a sound card with good MIDI timing and then hooking it up to the hardware MIDI connections on your Scope card/Xite?

Funny, i saw this (possible) solution in my dream last night

[JoPo]

I wonder whether the best MIDI timing for Scope would come from having a sound card with good MIDI timing and then hooking it up to the hardware MIDI connections on your Scope card/Xite? As far as I can tell, the MIDI connection that way to the Sharc chips goes via a different (hardware) route. Should be easy enough to create a test for. Dante: up your street?

Interesting ! But Xite or PCI midi input don't like sysex, for instance. Last time I tried again to use them, I had some strange behavior... But it's worth to try !

Thank you, Will.

[vascomusic]

Yes, it's worth trying it.
I'm gonna hook up my old Emagic AMT8 to compare Scope's internal midi route timing vs. external midi route timing.

[garyb]

actually, Scope's midi timing is as tight as hardware. it's Windows that is sloppy. the transfer from one environment to the other(computer to Scope and vice versa) is the problem. this makes sense because data is not transferred linearly and one system is realtime and the other is not. that doesn't mean that there might not be ways to improve the actual performance.

[JoPo]

Ok but when I play hardware synth via my midiman usb, there is no such timing issue, even if when I send too much midi data, timing issue happens. But when I send much more midi data than into Scope. That's why Will say it could be better to sens midi via hadware midi output in Scope. Or you mean those issues happen when midi data go to a windows softare to another ?