Sonic Core announces Scope 5!

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:04 am

FrancisHarmany wrote:Page 5 ? New page, new chances!

lets start over

no replying to trolling on this page, thank you. you'll have to wait till page 6.

You always want to have the last word.

reflex · Post by **reflex** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:01 pm

braincell wrote:Excuse me I but am asking for an American to answer this. You have to read what I said.

Since when are Americans the ultimate authority on the English language?

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:51 pm

Nice one reflex

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:55 pm

braincell wrote:Chriskorff, that was not only OT but very immature.

But funny, unlike anything you've ever said. Bit of 'pot, kettle, black' going on here.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:19 am

reflex wrote:
braincell wrote:Excuse me I but am asking for an American to answer this. You have to read what I said.
Since when are Americans the ultimate authority on the English language?

I'm sorry you misunderstood me. I wished to get a reply from an American and I did.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:24 am

time to pull out your credit card and order the upgrade, then?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:11 am

Oops I calculated the exchange rate again. I guess I did it backwards before.

199.00 EUR = 310 Dollars.

The Scope Home card costs just $90 more!

This shows how *ridiculously* over priced the upgrade is. Why would anyone buy this? I'm considering buying the home card after my tax refunds come in which should be soon. It's a way better deal. The only way to bring prices down is to not buy items which are a bad value.

On the other hand, perhaps I should wait for cards that come with version 5 in case I misunderstood the website and people who buy the cards don't get version 5 but that is a gamble since they might raise the price of cards that come with version 5. You never know what they are going to do. The Xcite thing makes me think they want to get back to high prices. The Home card costs a little less than I paid for the Luna. I'm currently using 2 cards so it will be great to have 3 type 2 cards installed and more DSP chips.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:30 am

if you get a home card with 4.5, you'll still get 5.0.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:33 am

Thanks Gary, I will order it before 5 comes out then.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:01 am

sure thing.

pollux · Post by **pollux** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:58 am

braincell wrote:Oops I calculated the exchange rate again. I guess I did it backwards before.

199.00 EUR = 310 Dollars.

The Scope Home card costs just $90 more!

This shows how *ridiculously* over priced the upgrade is. Why would anyone buy this? I'm considering buying the home card after my tax refunds come in which should be soon. It's a way better deal. The only way to bring prices down is to not buy items which are a bad value.

On the other hand, perhaps I should wait for cards that come with version 5 in case I misunderstood the website and people who buy the cards don't get version 5 but that is a gamble since they might raise the price of cards that come with version 5. You never know what they are going to do. The Xcite thing makes me think they want to get back to high prices. The Home card costs a little less than I paid for the Luna. I'm currently using 2 cards so it will be great to have 3 type 2 cards installed and more DSP chips.

sonic core site wrote:or you buy SCOPE 4.5 up from the 1st of january 2008 (including a SCOPE PCI board)

The SCOPE Home card costs 499 euro (around 750 dollars). The upgrade 199.
You should also notice that the plugins that come with the SCOPE home with SFP 4.5 are less than the plugins you get when upgrading to SFP 4.5 a 6 or 14 DSP card. I presume it will be the same with SFP5.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:22 am

pollux wrote:The SCOPE Home card costs 499 euro (around 750 dollars). The upgrade 199.

I've seen a 6 dsp card at jrrshop for 799 usd. I assume there is an equivalent price for the 3 dsp card somewhere...

You should also notice that the plugins that come with the SCOPE home with SFP 4.5 are less than the plugins you get when upgrading to SFP 4.5 a 6 or 14 DSP card. I presume it will be the same with SFP5.

yes. the upgrade for a 6 dsp card includes a S&S or M&M pack, and both for a pro card. the price is the same. the list of included plugins for the home cards was remarkably short...

-greetings, markus-

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:48 am

Anyone who buys the Scope Home card gets a code to get 5 free for free. I don't care about version 4.5.

The Scope Home costs $399 USD (with 3 DSP chips)
Upgrade Costs $310 USD (plus shipping)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=scope+home

Gary am I right about this?

I will pay a little extra to have 3 more chips. This will be the 5th card I bought. The two type one cards are in another computer. I guess they will end up not being used since I would have to pay an arm and a leg to get version 5 for them. Sonic Core is taking a lead from Microsoft by screwing people with their DRM. Love the way people assume if it's in 2 computers, two people are using it. In the old days, you buy software, you do what you want with it. Now they have you by the balls. Nobody else will be developing a Scope platform.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:30 am

braincell wrote:Anyone who buys the Scope Home card gets a code to get 5 free for free.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=scope+home

I would definitely check whether the 399 USD package contains scope 4.5 or not. I did not see a single line mentioning 4.5 in the product description.

the scope home 4.5 package was introduced when software 4.5 was released. it was a bundle of the existing scope home card with 4.0, the optional adat expansion and the scope 4.5 license.

if they sell a single scope home (which maybe NOS) it is possible that it comes without the 4.5 license, thus you'd be not eligible for 5.0 for free.

the other pack (for 500 usd) is explicitly sold as the bundle mentioned above. you get the adat expansion for half the price plus 4.5. I'd get that, if I were you...

-greetings, markus-

reflex · Post by **reflex** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:37 am

braincell wrote:In the old days, you buy software, you do what you want with it. Now they have you by the balls.

I worked for a software company in "the good old days" that was put out of business by people stealing their unprotected programs. Sadly, some means of controlling licenses is required to keep people from taking all they can get without paying.

The Scope market is tiny, therefore Holger and Juergen cannot charge extremely low prices. Why should Sonic Core provide you with incredibly cheap software because you paid Creamware for earlier versions in the past? You're ignoring the fact that they're two completely different companies, and that Sonic Core has to make money somehow, or they will cease to exist.

You seem determined to obtain Sonic Core's new product without paying them for it, which stinks.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:12 am

I'll check with Sonic Core. If it's not free, their website is wrong. It says on their site anyone who buys one of their cards now gets the upgrade free.

kylie wrote:
braincell wrote:Anyone who buys the Scope Home card gets a code to get 5 free for free.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=scope+home
I would definitely check whether the 399 USD package contains scope 4.5 or not. I did not see a single line mentioning 4.5 in the product description.

the scope home 4.5 package was introduced when software 4.5 was released. it was a bundle of the existing scope home card with 4.0, the optional adat expansion and the scope 4.5 license.

if they sell a single scope home (which maybe NOS) it is possible that it comes without the 4.5 license, thus you'd be not eligible for 5.0 for free.

the other pack (for 500 usd) is explicitly sold as the bundle mentioned above. you get the adat expansion for half the price plus 4.5. I'd get that, if I were you...

-greetings, markus-

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:18 am

I have no problem with them charging money for the SFP (although I think it's a high price). It's an unfortunate result that users have to buy another copy for each computer (to use Version 5). Some companies have DRM, some don't. I prefer no DRM. We all know that other companies such as Native Instruments and Steinberg Jones have DRM and they are usually cracked within days of their release so the DRM only hurts honest customers. Some people argue they got so big because of the cracks. A good number of people use them to demo the software and most others would not have bought it at any price ever so I fail to see how it is a loss.

It would be really nice if they let you install it on two cards. Imagine you go sell sell a card on ebay and keep another one. Now you will have to explain oh by the way if you want this to work on Vista, you have to pay Sonic Whore over $300 more. They just made our extra used boards worthless. Thanks Sonic Whore!

It's really no surprise because companies almost never look at things from a customer's perspective.

reflex wrote:
braincell wrote:In the old days, you buy software, you do what you want with it. Now they have you by the balls.
I worked for a software company in "the good old days" that was put out of business by people stealing their unprotected programs. Sadly, some means of controlling licenses is required to keep people from taking all they can get without paying.

The Scope market is tiny, therefore Holger and Juergen cannot charge extremely low prices. Why should Sonic Core provide you with incredibly cheap software because you paid Creamware for earlier versions in the past? You're ignoring the fact that they're two completely different companies, and that Sonic Core has to make money somehow, or they will cease to exist.

You seem determined to obtain Sonic Core's new product without paying them for it, which stinks.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:42 am

braincell wrote:I'll check with Sonic Core. If it's not free, their website is wrong. It says on their site anyone who buys one of their cards now gets the upgrade free.

no. they say:

The software update will be free available for you, if...

* you bought SCOPE 4.5 until the 31th of december 2007
* or you buy SCOPE 4.5 up from the 1st of january 2008 at SONIC CORE and with that, you got your special update code from us for free
* or you buy SCOPE 4.5 up from the 1st of january 2008 (including a SCOPE PCI board) at one of our distribution partners

1) musiciansfriend is one of their listed retailers. ok.
2) the card you intend to buy does obviously not contain a 4.5 license. it's not the product called "Scope Home 4.5". sorry.
3) there is not a word on the SC website that any card sold anywhere in the world now is automatically licensed to 4.5. sorry again.

"..if you buy SCOPE 4.5.." is not "..if you buy a creamware/soniccore dsp card.."

you can, indeed, waste your money on that offer, but still I recommend buying the Scope Home 4.5 pack for a 100 usd more.
that's what provides you with a 4.5 license.
I'm kinda sure the other offer doesn't. ask musiciansfriend.

and, well, if not, it's neither my fault nor soniccores if you end up with 3 dsps more and no 4.5 license...

-greetings, markus-

pollux · Post by **pollux** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:43 am

braincell wrote:I have no problem with them charging money for the software (although I think it's a high price). It's an unfortunate result that users have to buy another copy for each computer. Some companies have DRM, some don't. I prefer no DRM. We all know that other companies such as Native Instruments and Steinberg Jones have DRM and they are usually cracked within days of their release so the DRM only hurts honest customers. Some people argue they got so big because of the cracks. A good number of people use them to demo the software and most others would not have bought it at any price ever so I fail to see how it is a loss.

If you have win XP and you want to upgrade to Vista you have to pay
If you have Cubase 3 and you want to upgrade to Cubase 4 you have to pay
If you have Sonar 6 and you want to upgrade to Sonar 7 you have to pay
If you have Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 and you want RHEL 6 you have to pay
......
could continue for hours
......

When you upgrade to SFP 4.5, you not only get the new software, but also get a big bunch of plugins that cost a lot more if you buy them sepparate.

The same happens with the amount of software licenses. You cannot use a single Windows or Office license on two machines, nor a single Cubase or Sonar license on two machines. Technically you can do it, but not legally.

As for the cracked versions, I see your point of view, and it can be valid in some cases.
The fact that anyone could have a "cracked" windows 3.0 at home is what made it a big hit in the corporate world when PCs became massively used. The same can apply to cakewalk or steinberg... It can even be called some form of "massive marketing", and it paid.
The case of SFP is different.. You can only run the software and the plugins if you own a specific hardware..
It means that if you have the card and use cracked software, you'll very unlikely buy it..
That has a big impact in SC's or the plugin developer's finances because it's not going to enlarge the user base in any way, but the very opposite, reduce it as the crack spreads.
As for using the same plugin on different cards on different computers, the same as before applies.. How could you prove that you're not using the two computers at the same time? or that you actually own both of them?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:48 am

This is why hardware is good. You own what you buy. You never own software and are at the mercy of some corporation far away. Just because a lot of companies screw the customer, doesn't make it right.

I really have no issue with them tying the modules to the hardware but not the SFP. That is evil! Give people at least the basic stuff so that we can still sell some of our cards. Otherwise they will remain in the closet. You could not even give them away.