SpaceF - Valve Mixers -version 1.7

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spacef
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Post by spacef » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:33 am

FrancisHarmany wrote:
spacef wrote: Mehdi,

Yes, there is only the vu and margin meter to check headroom. So it is normal (and it is the same as the aux 1 and 2).
Its not the same. If I move the gain knob (have to re-check this at home) on AUX 1 & 2 I see the number of -/+ DBs. The AUX3 does not have this feature.

Also the gain of AUX is not applied to the Return signals, perhaps this is by design ?

I will check the CC tonight also.

Oh you mean when you "mouse over" the control ? may be, i can check this.
FrancisHarmany wrote: Also the gain of AUX is not applied to the Return signals, perhaps this is by design ?
Yes, the gain is applied only to the inserts. The rationale for this was to be able to mix returns and inserts effects at different levels (and be able to "crossfade" between them using the gains of the return and direct).

To modify the level of the returns, you must use the "return" level (it is a "mix" control, ie max is 0db, nt +12).

Is that bad ? I can check if it can be modified... it should be possible without loosing any of the existing possibilities. not sure yet, i remember something during the making that led me to do it like that.... but it can be changed anyway (in the worse case, you loose the gain on the inserts, for a common gain for the aux output).


Oh, by the way:
aux 3 same as aux 1 and 2 : db indicator on mouse over ;-)

Image

:-)

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FrancisHarmany
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Post by FrancisHarmany » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:00 am

Then what are those 0.0 values for ?!

I assumed they showed the Gain DB settings. I saw this on AUX1 & 2, just not on AUX3 :P

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spacef
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Post by spacef » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:12 am

they are the margin - meters, ie, they show the headroom avilable before reaching clipping (0 dB). Like a clip indicator but with more features, as it is not limited to 0dB. It tells you how much gain you can add before clipping.
You reset those values with the margin reset button (on the vu-meter section, just next to aux 3 section). the margin reset button resets all margin meters.
So , in the picture, 0.0 dB means that the signal has clipped.

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FrancisHarmany
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Post by FrancisHarmany » Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:25 am

Alright this was all working last night.

In midi-ox I see that the CC the mixer sends are "paramento" (or something like that) ??? What could cause the midi messages to "look" differnt ? I am affraid the
controller will expect the exact same midi cc ?

I didnt get the feedback to my behringer working (yet). Probably because I use USB, which sucks, so tonight I will connect my midi cables.

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Post by spacef » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:29 am

parmento ?
i don't know, here it is the same CC in and out, and parameter feedback works perfect too, even with usb. For param feedback you have to put the BCR in the relevant mode (u4, s4... depends on the setup). Otherwise it doesn't work. Please look the diagrams in the BCR manual and select the mode which is better for you. I use the mode "S4" (param feedback on USB - i use usb because i think it is much faster than midi (especially for the sysex dumps).

Also, midi Ox automatically puts the name of the control in the gM standard. So CC7 will be called volume instead of CC7 (i hate that , but that's how they did it). MAy be what you saw is the CC number named as "portamento" (which is part of GM naming convention).

Check the video

Personal Tip: i like to use an extra Midi Seq driver when i use the BCR in cubase (one for recording, and one for controlling/sending back: but this may require extra routing in the sequencer and should not be necessary in USB mode). But I did it not to have to deal with midi drivers anymore, and keep the tracks always active in cubase. I use the same setup for one or two years now and never had to change it whatever is the controller i have been using.


ps, i have checked the aux gain, and it does not raise the gain of the aux send out (s1, s2, s3), otherwise you could not chain mixers. but it makes sense to add the feature though. For the moment, either use the aux return input level, or the main aux level (master section). If your effect returns are really low, instead of adding gain to them, lower the mix level (master section) and rise the master level if necessary. it allows to add level to aux without the need for an additional gain (well, of course, if your external effects output a level of -48 dB, it is a bit hard on the mixer, and you should use an external dB adder or gain booster).

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Post by dawman » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:57 pm

Sidechaing with the Comp Sat,....wow.

Tell us more please.

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Post by spacef » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:47 am

Basically CompSat is made to allow to re-route an audio signal (from the mixer's direct outputs or from somewhere else in the project window) and to send it to be the sidechain signal of Compsat. Sidechain is generally used to compress a signal with another signal.
CompSat is the basic compressor-M from Scope and so it even allows normal compression (compress signal by itself). wow :-)


- An exemple of sidechain would be to compress a synth pad with a drum loop (kind of extreme, but why not).
- Another common example is to compress the signal with a filtered version of the same signal (to compress only when frequencies are > or < to a certain frequency value). You can do a fedback loop from the inserts direct output to the mod inputs. no problem.
- it allows to experiment stuff easily like, adding a short delay to the sidechain signal, compress or limit it, or psyQ it or whatever you want to do to change the signal shape, and therefore, the way the audio is compressed....
- with a bit of work, i am pretty sure compsat allows to simulate an old fostex R8 tape with dolby nr activated: it messed up some signal like it had some weird compressor in it (half joke, half serious, i'm pretty sure the result could be interesting. But I do not have my R8 anymore for doing anything serious in this respect. I only have some recording made on an Otari digital 48 tracks, but the sound of it is overidden by the sound of an amek console - so... well,... (just get the FAT and some LP filters at 10/12 Khz and there you go).

The drawback is that it takes one modulation input (or 2 for stereo). But with the free bus extension that will be added to FP/Valve mixers (for free), it should be fine (it adds 4 modulation inputs + their reverse counterpart+3 mod to CC). It also gave me another idea, and may be i will add 3 more mod inputs to the FP/Valve mixers....
sometimes, i'd like to snap and have the devices done.....

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Post by FrancisHarmany » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:52 am

3 extra mod sources would be great :D

I didnt see this comming..... Bus mixers for free ?! AWESOME! 8)


How about a combined LP/HP valve filter so we can do both HP & LP with one midi controller :roll:

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Post by dawman » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:39 pm

Mehdi,....you are sick !!

This is what I love about DSP / virtual mixers. They go beyond the limits of hardware sometimes.

I could be wrong but I don't ever remember seeing a hardware device that can send 3LFO's into chosen channels. :D

This will be added to my Mono synth layers for a little extra sheen.

I program each Mono synth ( 3 ) to be parts of the whole. For example, I don't need to fatten them, they are already FAT BASTARDS, but will use the filters of the Pro One to make both of it's Oscillators have a BP filter, while Modular can be combined w/ my hardware analog to become a 6 Oscillator Monosynth. Usually 3 sets of duplicate pitchs, slightly detuned, and having the option of muliple waveforms. Comp Sat will definately be experimented with on these sounds first.

I am happy for all of us, and happy for you too Mehdi. Soniccore's new site looks great, and it's nice to see your devices on display there. But your site is really where the action is. The videos and tutorials are just damn considerate, and really help lame ass guys like me very much.


Congrats, And Thank You.

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spacef
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Post by spacef » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:11 am

You're welcome....

Update of CompSat
- CompSat-B allows to filter the side chain signal with a multimode filter. No need to load one in the project window when you just want to filter the compressor input and use it as side chain.

Image


Free add-on for FP and Valve Mixers:

- MB4 16 group sender. The MB4-16 is a great way to add busses and auxiliaries to any mixer, and add 4 modulation inputs (with their reverse version) and 3 mod to CC (converts modulation into CC to send to inserts.
240 midi CC as usual in the mixer devices (120 for surface controls, 120 for inserts).
Image
Available for download in FP/FB user area.

more info
http://www.spacef-devices.com/
Last edited by spacef on Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:00 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by FrancisHarmany » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:59 am

mucho thankos!!! This is great Medhi, thanks thanks thanks!

All your bus are belong to us!

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Post by Tau » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:19 am

:)

THANK YOU!

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Post by dawman » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:57 pm

I have a few awesome vintage hardware FX that I haven't used w/ Scope very much, especially since your delays sound so good, and I don't care for the sound of analog I/O's into Scope.

They can however be used in my hardware mixer which has 2 AUX's.

The one which I miss was my Lexicon Vortex. It morphs effects. It does this very well as far as audio is concerned, but there are only a couple of combinations that suit me. The best one is the chorus/flange/phase. It takes a swept filter pad and Morphs during the swell, which sounded really great on my Oberheims. I will break it out for BUS 1's outputs. BUS 2 will go to the EDP for reverse stuff, BUS 3 will be for my hardware spring reverb, BUS 4 will be for unaffected signals.

BUS 3 will basically be sent to a hardware Spring reverb for the B4000 prior to the rotary cabinet.

I am glad to have this ability finally.

I have been resticted to using very few channels and only 1 AUX on my PL24 hardware mixer, this will now be used to better effect. No pun intended.

Absolutely A Needed Addition to the FAT BASTARD mixer.

Is it called the MEAN BASTARD 4?



Thanks So Much Brotha' Man Mehdi.

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Post by FrancisHarmany » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:25 am

so anyone else having fun with these lovely tools ?
Wondering what weirdness in routing you guys are using :)

Tonight at home I figured I would try this! Perhaps 4x prodessey
is a bit overkill :P

So I route the normal prodessey outputs to X inputs. Then each prodessey have 4 inputs which can be routed to one of the 4 busses.

Medhi: when using it for such weird (?) routing, input gain/panning would rock (of course). Now I Am thinking to put a micro mixer before the 16 inputs so I can do that.

ALSO: can someone confirm you can only solo ONE bus ? if I solo two the sound stops.
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Post by spacef » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:07 am

pretty picture :lol:
The MB4D, with 4 bus send and invidual panning (per aux send) is on the way. Still in the test tube though, then released as a seperate components.
The MB4-G pitcured above (g for groups) is a bit lighter, and given for free with FB5 or FP mixers.

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spacef
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Post by spacef » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:13 am

FrancisHarmany wrote: ALSO: can someone confirm you can only solo ONE bus ? if I solo two the sound stops.
I can confirm that I uploaded a correction today :-)
the solo circuit is fine now.
Sorry.... that's the kind of small little things that i am checking again on the other versions, that's why they are not yet out...

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FrancisHarmany
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Post by FrancisHarmany » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:08 pm

thanks for the new version!!!

still in the process of getting a feeling of the mixers! so many to route the sounds, its amazing, thats when stuff starts "happening"! will take a while before I can use these babies "automaticly" but I am sure it will come 8)

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Post by FrancisHarmany » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:12 am

New SpaceF Bus Mixer has arrived!! Its in beta......

Its VERY COOL!! You can route each of the 16 stereo-inputs to ALL FOUR BUSSES! There is a gain-knob which lets you control how much goes to which BUS....... (so one gain knob for each bus)..... it doesnt end here though......
we can also set the panning to be used for each signal going to each bus...

confused yet ? will post screenshot tonight, or perhaps mehdi will beat me too it ;)

So each audio-source can go to each of the four-busses with differnt pan & gain settings..... of course one can connect audio sources to the mixer multiple times.... allowing you to send one source to the same bus with differnt gain & pan settings.

stay tuned :)

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Post by dawman » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:25 am

Shrink the pic to 65% to keep the thread straight and narrow. :wink:


I have never been a channel kinda guy except for recording.

I prefer the AUX / BUSS approach for live work, and definately ganged faders etc.


Nice job Mehdi.

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Post by kensuguro » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:35 am

ya know, I still haven't used this, but I've been wanting one since '06!

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... ight=mixer

Definitely should become my main equipment for mixing!

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