Scope 7 Bug List

An area for people to discuss Scope related problems, issues, etc.

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Rebu
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by Rebu » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:48 am

It's software problem, 5.1 not have this issue..

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garyb
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by garyb » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:25 am

maybe so, but v7 does not have this problem, here.

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dante
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by dante » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:30 pm

Yes, so we have yet to reduce this to a unique set of (reproducible) conditions. We only know that there are 2 conditions (Scope 7 and Show Desktop) but there may be 1 or more. We know the following :

1) its not OS specific (happens on both Win 8 and Win10).
2) I doubt its related to a C++ Runtime version conflict, because I uninstalled ALL versions of C++ runtime and Scope still worked and the error still occured. Same after I used to Scope 7 installer to re-install the C++ runtime.
3) Its not Scope hardware type related (happens on both PCI and XITE)

Unknown factors include :
1) Does it happen on 32 bit systems ?
2) Specific hardware conditions such as IRQ conflicts, video card etc.

But the fact it relates to 'show desktop' or 'hide desktop' suggests to me it could be video related, although that would be a lot easier conclusion if it were reversed. EG 'Show Desktop' crashes rather than 'Hide Desktop'. ...

Anything weird in my IRQ ?
irq.jpg
Dante IRQ
irq.jpg (158.11 KiB) Viewed 2643 times

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garyb
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by garyb » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:51 pm

no, nothing weird.

it really does not happen here. not at all.

babaorum
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by babaorum » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:20 am

PLAY v6.0.1 (EASTWEST plugin) isn't compatible with ASIO SCOPE PCI ==> crash with Blue Screen of the PC (systematically reproductible).

edit : It's only the standalone version which has issue !!!! :D

NOTION v6 idem ...
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garyb
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by garyb » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:45 am

any application which attempts to setup the soundcard will fail with a bluescreen.

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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by babaorum » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:22 pm

Why is it like that ? doesn't scope drivers could be modified to remove this issue ?
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garyb
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by garyb » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:11 pm

Scope cards are not controlled by Windows via a driver.
Scope cards are a separate computer. that's why they have a program. Scope is the operating system.

it's bad programming from the developer that makes this situation. since most users are stupid and are neither engineers or musicians, the writers of some applications decide that it's better to do it all for the user. this is great for some circumstances, but it leaves everyone who does not use a "Windows Soundcard"(Scope is not a Windows Soundcard, but it can act like one) out of the picture. if the guy who wrote the app left an escape route for the software if it could not access an ASIO control panel, then it would work with everything. Scope cards will never have an ASIO control panel in Windows, because there is no practical way for Windows to know what is happening inside the card.

it's not Scope that is wrong, it is the application developer, because he didn't care about other possibilities. it is possible that EASTWEST could patch the app in the same way that Steinberg once provided a fix for Wavelab.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by Bud Weiser » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:09 pm

garyb wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:11 pm
Scope cards are not controlled by Windows via a driver.
Scope cards are a separate computer. that's why they have a program. Scope is the operating system.
excellent explanation !
And,- most of us (I guess),- want it to be the same ´til doomsday !
Using SCOPE on a separate machine is the best IMO,- may it be for the time being or in future.

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by Music Manic » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:14 pm

I've resolved my problem with GOST plugins. I was getting a crash even though I had the right DSP and .sys files. I loaded the old sys files and the plugins loaded without a crash but asked for the newer sys files. It also asked for the .reg keys which it didn't do before. I applied the keys then put the newer sys files and it worked correctly.

I'm just wondering how the update deals with some keys. Are these causing the crashes when they're not entered in the main Scope registry?

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garyb
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by garyb » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:02 pm

no.
v5 keys work for optional plugins.

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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by babaorum » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:44 am

Ok Gary Thanks for explanations ! it's clearer now.

I allowed myself to quote you to EastWest support ( but without the part on the bad programmers :D ) , I'll do the same for Presonus (Notion) (but wihout the part for wavelab because they are Studio One developpers ... and I suppose they will not demand to Steinberg an help :roll: ) :
« Scope cards are not controlled by Windows via a driver.
Scope cards are a separate computer. that's why they have a program. Scope is the operating system.
This is great for some circumstances, but it leaves everyone who does not use a "Windows Soundcard" (Scope is not a Windows Soundcard, but it can act like one) out of the picture.
If the guy who wrote the app left an escape route for the software if it could not access an ASIO control panel, then it would work with everything.
Scope cards will never have an ASIO control panel in Windows, because there is no practical way for Windows to know what is happening inside the card.
It is possible that EASTWEST could patch the app in the same way that Steinberg once provided a fix for Wavelab. »
Thanks Gary.
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by babaorum » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:52 am

Maybe for a next version of scope I suggest to create a 'virtual' control panel to fake the 'windows complient' ...?
I'm a fan of scope you know, I like the singularity of scope but I think that OS needing is an important thing to expect for the hardwares because it's inside the OS we work. And it could only extend the range of scope that take into account the Windows OS part of sound cards.
We would not be worried about every update of scope software which it will be compatible or not ...
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garyb
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by garyb » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:32 am

i don't think that's possible.
it's also not necessary for the OS to control hardware...necessarily. :)
it's just something for kids and feature junkies. it doesn't make a producer or engineer's life any easier.

well, i get what you mean about worry, but no need to worry. music is bigger than the machines that make it, just like humans are greater than the machines they make, even if the machines become sentient and kill everyone and rule the universe... :D

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garyb
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by garyb » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:45 am

it would be much easier for the programmer to leave an option to accept the settings the driver provides. how do you think the rest of the programs work?

i'm not saying it's never the driver's fault. sometimes it is the driver, but when it works for all but a couple of applications, it's really not fair to blame the driver or the hardware. the ASIO standard did have a lot of features added to it, but it's not right to expect every driver to implement any of those features, beyond what is needed to transmit and accept the audio data/clock streams. there's certainly nothing wrong with a programmer making use of all features, when they are available, of course. if this was how business was done, the v5.1 ASIO driver would work with EVERYTHING and Holger would have been able to spend 100% of his driver effort time on the Wave driver. he could have just had the v5.1 driver signed and been done with it. :)

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ronnie
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by ronnie » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:29 am

Google and install VoiceMeeter (Donationware).

I have a hunch that may solve your problem. You'll select VM as the ASIO driver in EastWest. Leave Scope alone.

Start Scope.
Start VB.
Tell VB to use Scope ASIO channels.
Start EW.
Choose VB driver.
Profit.

Can't hurt.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays

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garyb
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by garyb » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:45 am

yes, voicemeeter should be a quite functional work around.

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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by babaorum » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:07 am

I'm afraid it add latency. I completely removed VB.
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ronnie
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by ronnie » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:28 pm

Oh well. Sounds like EW ASIO buffer adjustment or VB not configured correctly. Don't use EW standalone but Sampletank and Kontakt and Halion with no problem. Even wIth just Scope, no VB. With VB I can use them all at once with Scope.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays

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ronnie
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Re: Scope 7 Bug List

Post by ronnie » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:02 am

I'm just using a refurb HP-XW4600 quad core 2.8 with 16GB of RAM. Win 7 Pro. VoiceMeeter, Process Lasso. No special video, a cheap NVIDIA with 1 DVI, HDMI and VGA. 2 Hybrid 1TB drives and a 27 inch HD widescreen. 3 PCI: Pro, Pulsar, Luna. Two STDM cables. Scope 5.1. Too broke to go for the 7 special (fractured knee) but it looks like maybe better to wait and see as I have mucho Akai samples to feed STS and no patience right now to iron wrinkles.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays

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