A16 Ultra PSU

An area for people to discuss Scope related problems, issues, etc.

Moderators: valis, garyb

Post Reply
cju198
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 4:00 pm
Contact:

A16 Ultra PSU

Post by cju198 » Sun May 15, 2016 9:33 am

Hi,

My power supply for the A16 ultra just packed in; it's a 12v 2amp output. I plugged in one I had for something else with 12V 3amp output, and it works fine , but there's major pink noise in the background, very strange. Are there any specifc requirements to power supply quality? anyone else share any experiences?

Thanks in advance,

Chris

PS. I 'm really pissed off that my NORD lead 3 has packed in recently as well, it just reboots constantly. I've had it in for repair many times, and it worked for a bit, then start rebooting again. Why does all electronics only have a shelf life of 10 years!!

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21661
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by garyb » Sun May 15, 2016 9:40 am

12 volt AC. AC is very important.
also, if the supply is not regulated, it can make noise.

why not contact Ferrofish and order the correct supply?
www.Ferrofish.de

cju198
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by cju198 » Sun May 15, 2016 10:37 am

aaarggh! I assumed it was DC! I hope I haven't knackered anything...

thanks for the link, i'll get a new one from there

Chris

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21661
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by garyb » Sun May 15, 2016 10:55 am

:)

i'm pretty sure it's AC. it's been a while since i held one, but....


Ferrofish can definitely provide the correct one. :)

cju198
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by cju198 » Sun May 15, 2016 11:06 am

..it is, I just checked the original supply, and it clearly says "AC power supply" on it; I'm a moron.

I sent an email to ferrofish, once again thanks for the help.

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21661
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by garyb » Sun May 15, 2016 11:27 am

:)

User avatar
krizrox
Posts: 1325
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Elgin, IL USA
Contact:

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by krizrox » Sun May 29, 2016 6:42 am

I bought a replacement through Gary a few years back. Thought he would be able to provide source info on an alternative. I don't think you have to go directly to Ferrofish for this. There's nothing unique about the supply other than the supply ratings (12V AC/2-3amp). The only thing I didn't like about the replacement unit Gary sold me was it was a regular wall wart (huge and heavy) compared to the "in-line" model that came with my original A16 Ultra. The newer wall wart is so heavy it doesn't sit well in a regular outlet (the weight of it tends to pull the wart out of the socket). I had to jury rig a fastening solution to keep it plugged in. The original supply just sat on a rack shelf next to the A16. This may or may not be a big deal if you're traveling with your A16.

Here's one

http://www.jameco.com/1/1/53353-gpu4812 ... upply.html

If you're outside the US this might not work since you're probably at 220/240V AC

User avatar
JoPo
Posts: 2132
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: VRRAAaaooOôOooommmh
Contact:

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by JoPo » Sun May 29, 2016 8:03 am

Yes.. Krizrox is right : you can use any 12v AC powersupply that delivers at least 2 A. If you find one that can give 3 A, it's even better : it will be stronger for a longer time. And regulated is for sure better but a bit more expensive but you won't get any bad noise. A good ground is essential too.

You can find tons of such a power supply on internet or in an electronic shop in town. Take a good quality (not the less expensive one !) and you'll be quiet for a moment ! Ferrofish doesn't build its power supply, anyway, they buy it like you could and catch some money by reselling it to you.

For your NORD lead 3, did you send it to Nordkeyboards to repair it ? What does it do ? You start it, then it reboots by itself ? No power supply issue ? That would mean it's the software that has a problem. Did you update firmware, OS ? If you did, I'm afraid only Nordkeyboards is able to fix it.

Take it easy ! (Easy to say so : I'm the first to get mad with such a pain ! :D )
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21661
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by garyb » Sun May 29, 2016 9:39 am

Kriz- that was an OLD one.
i believe that Ferrofish has the newer ones.

yes, you can use any supply with the proper output and end, but they can be a hassle to track down.
if you are a good detective, you might save a little money. or...you might spend more time, effort and money trying to find one that works if you aren't such a good detective. big supplies 12vlt AC 2A and above are not rare, but they're not common either. especially with the proper sized connector...

if you do run across one with the needed parameters, there's no reason not to use it.

User avatar
astroman
Posts: 8000
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Germany

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by astroman » Sun May 29, 2016 11:52 am

JoPo wrote:... you can use any 12v AC powersupply that delivers at least 2 A. If you find one that can give 3 A, it's even better : it will be stronger for a longer time. And regulated is for sure better but a bit more expensive but you won't get any bad noise. A good ground is essential too.
a 3A will not make too much difference to a 2A version, but the higher the Ampere rating, the higher the output voltage
an unloaded 2A will probably show about 15V, at 3A 16-18V, 5A possibly 20V and above... you get the idea
while this won't cause direct damage, it will produce excessive heat from downward regulation
if the cooling metal devices are designed for 2A, they won't get along with 4A easily
and: there's no such thing as a regulated AC power supply ;)

cheers, Tom

User avatar
JoPo
Posts: 2132
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: VRRAAaaooOôOooommmh
Contact:

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by JoPo » Sun May 29, 2016 1:40 pm

?? What ??

2 A for a power supply is the max current it can supply, that's it ! The current amount is "decided" by the electrical receptor, more axactly, its resistor, in ohm. A power supply that could supply 3 A max 12 v and which is regulated will never deserve 15 v or more !

The power supply voltage can only go down and only in the case the electrical receptor wants more than power supply max current : if, with a 2 A - 12v power supply, you plug a more than 2 x 12 = 24 watt receptor, which means the receptor consumes more than 2 A, the voltage will decrease, or even fall down. I don't see how, or in which case, power supply voltage can increase.

If a device is done to consume 24w on 12v, you can plug into it a 2400w 12v power supply (which means 2400/12 = 200A !), it will deserve only 2A, the current the electrical receptor need and "ask for". And the 198A that remains are simply not consumed, they are not delivered.
Last edited by JoPo on Sun May 29, 2016 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <

User avatar
astroman
Posts: 8000
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Germany

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by astroman » Sun May 29, 2016 1:55 pm

just read carefully... ;)
I wrote 'unloaded' that means if you measure the output of a 12V 2A transformer (which is all that's in an A16U PSU) it shows (say) 15V
if you connect it to the load, this will drop to 12V if 2 A are drawn
a 5A transformer will provide 20V unloaded, which drop to 12V on full load
if you draw only 2A, the drop is less... say 15V
this is well within the specs of typical regulators, but the 3V difference require more 'action' which results in more heat
the regulators are inside the A16U...

cheers, Tom

User avatar
JoPo
Posts: 2132
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: VRRAAaaooOôOooommmh
Contact:

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by JoPo » Sun May 29, 2016 8:46 pm

A regulated power supply will always deliver 12 V with load or not, untill the max current (ampere) it can deliver is reached and even over. :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <

User avatar
astroman
Posts: 8000
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Germany

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by astroman » Sun May 29, 2016 9:57 pm

1 last try... the 'powersupply' of an A16U
IS NOT REGULATED
it's a simple transformer 220/240V to 12V AC... you know... that sine wave stuff
not rectified, nor stabilized, no switching unit

cheers, Tom

User avatar
JoPo
Posts: 2132
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: VRRAAaaooOôOooommmh
Contact:

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by JoPo » Mon May 30, 2016 9:14 am

astroman wrote:just read carefully... ;)
I wrote 'unloaded' that means if you measure the output of a 12V 2A transformer (which is all that's in an A16U PSU) it shows (say) 15V
if you connect it to the load, this will drop to 12V if 2 A are drawn
a 5A transformer will provide 20V unloaded, which drop to 12V on full load
if you draw only 2A, the drop is less... say 15V
this is well within the specs of typical regulators, but the 3V difference require more 'action' which results in more heat
the regulators are inside the A16U...
Did you measured that yourself ? Cause power, voltage, current, voltage transformer, measurements is my everyday work and I never measured 15v on a 2A max - 12v transformer without any load.
I absolutely don't want to upset nobody ! And if I do, I'm very far from my goal : I just want nobody could makes some mistake with electrical things. :) I'm teaching electricity physics, that's my work. I can make mistake but about this subject, that one learns at the beginning, I am 99.9% sure.
And one can certainly understand that when someone make a mistake about the everyday work of somebody, this somebody will can't avoid to insist and explains that there is a mistake...

The voltage will drop down only if you put a less than 6Ω resistor on a 12v - 2A transformer : the current will be too high for that transformer and the voltage will colapse.

It's also possible that with a pretty old transformer, you measured 15v without any load (or with its normal load, in fact) because this transformer was build for being plugged in 220v and now, in Europa, the voltage has been rise to 230v, so any old transformer will deliver a little bit more than the voltage it would deliver on 220v. But that would not be 5v more... Much less.
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <

User avatar
astroman
Posts: 8000
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Germany

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by astroman » Mon May 30, 2016 12:29 pm

I'm not upset in any way - I just found it strange that you were even considering regulation with an AC supply ;)
with all unregulated supplies that I measured the (unloaded) voltage increased significantly with current specs
actually I never bothered much about it, but it was such a constant observation that I took it for a matter of fact
probably a transformer can be designed to minimize this effect, but that would most likely drive up costs...
no big deal anyway as the A16U is uncritical in the afforementioned range

admittedly it's predecessor (the old blue A16) had a very strange design of regulation (and used 18V DC)
with the original PSU it ran so hot, that a fan was necessary
if fed from a 16V notebook PSU (IBM Thinkpad) it worked perfectly and stayed just handwarm without fan
I've mentioned it a couple of times as a very good replacement
(just in case: that applies only to the original IBM part, a regular 18V 'brand x' switching PSU will most likely kill the unit)
your options may vary between keep the coffee warm or fry eggs on it :D

cheers, Tom

tonatona
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:58 am

Re: A16 Ultra PSU

Post by tonatona » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:00 am

Hi,

is A16 Ultra regulated within the unit itself? I remember someone wrote A16 (not Ulta) is regulated on the mainboard.

Post Reply