PCI MASTER OVERLOAD

[ta7]

Hallo,
I bought recently a ASUS P5K .
Inside are a Pulsar1 + SRB1
3GB ram and a cpu 2X3Ghz .
The graphics card is plugged those inside the second pci slot .
That is : PCI1 Pulsar , PCI2 graphics card , PCl3 SRB1
In the beginning everything went very well but a few days ago is increasingly the error message ''PCI MASTER OVERLOAD''.
when I run the pulsar card alone is all okay . No error message.
May be due to the graphics card ? Are there perhaps in bios some settings I can make ?
Oh you please help me . 4 dsp 's are just not enough .

Thanks Tomas

[garyb]

have you checked these settings?
http://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31345


in an empty project, add masterverbs until the PCI overflow message occurs. how many can you load? with a Pulsar1 in the mix, it should be 3-4. without the Pulsar1 it should be 8-12 masterverbs.

[ta7]

Hi Gary,
thanks for your answer.

The first thing I made yesterday evening is , I have replaced the PCI graphics card for a PCIe graphics card and the issue is resolved by maybe (I hope it stays that way) 98% . That makes me very happy. I can invite all synths and many effects (I have not tested all) until the dsp meter full.

have you checked these settings?
http://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31345

No. But in the next days i will check it.

in an empty project, add masterverbs until the PCI overflow message occurs. how many can you load? with a Pulsar1 in the mix, it should be 3-4. without the Pulsar1 it should be 8-12 masterverbs.

What do mean with a empty project. Without all destinations, sources, i/o's and drivers? completely empty?

And i don't understand what do you mean with " with a Pulsar1 in the mix... " and " without the Pulsar1... ".
Do you mean the SRB Board?


Thanks and greetings from Tomas

[garyb]

yes, a totally empty project...

any 4dsp card is a first generation Scope card. these do not handle PCI traffic nearly as well as the second generation cards like the Pulsar2 and Luna2 cards.

[ta7]

Okay. I have now made ​​the MasterVerb test and the result is not so constant. sometimes I can load five, sometimes only two. and better results I have with the MasterVerb Classic. Where I again significantly less error messages get if I reduce the Asio channels on 12 and before i load a plugin, turn off the Asiodriver in Cakewalk.
Finally now I can only say that come the error message sometimes more and sometimes less, to not at all up.
The most help was to replug the graphics card as the reduction of Asio channels and disable the Asiodriver before loding scope plugins.
the next thing I'll still, try the BIOS settings that you have linked.

any 4dsp card is a first generation Scope card. these do not handle PCI traffic nearly as well as the second generation cards like the Pulsar2 and Luna2 cards.

Aha, Okay.... . The Cards i have, i bought in about 2002. So These are i think, realy the first Cards ( it was the Software Version 1.32 with the Blue Mixer and the Inferno where you could turn off the flame animation ). Can it be that The Cards of this generation generally not good handle PCI traffic on newer mainboards?

Greetings and Thanks Tomas

[astroman]

yes, as Gary already wrote the hardware processing was changed significantly
if you can get along with higher latency (no live recording with the mix as a playback) it's usually not a problem with a single Pulsar One
(it's DSP power will be exhausted before the bus error strikes)
but with the SRB you have more cycles available so it turns the other way round

another matter of fact:
most early plugins were relatively low in DSP usage (programmers had to learn their stuff)
later there was way more demand and it's rather easy to overload even a 15 DSP card

if you like the system in general, add one of the 2nd generation cards, they are cheap today
the new card can be set as 'master' and the PC uses the faster card communication
(no special installation needed)

cheers, Tom

[ta7]

Hello when I have times a few Euros left I will again try a card of the second generation . Somehow it works also acceptable . The error messages are also only comming in this moment during the loading of devices. For me it is for now okay.

Something else. I think it's really cool if I see people like you in this forum wich are at the the first hour here and give the other people here help and tips that, in my opinion, far above normal know how . I registered here for the first time with my first account in 2002 and at that time it has passed already your expertise here.
And today, 14 years later, you still here and pass on your knowledge. what can I say than just respectful.

Thank you.


Greetings from Tomas

[astroman]

thanks for your kind words - my pleasure
it's been a long time indeed, but that's a clear vote in favour of Scope as a product
once it's been the only tool (with 'good' sound) available, but that has changed over the years
even some VSTs are valid options today - unthinkable in early 2000 years

the PCI trouble is quite an inconvenience
they shurely would have designed it different if price developement of memory chips had been known in advance
but crystal balls are rare

btw even Pro Tools suffered from this phenomenon
and had neither latency compensation nor plugin alignment whatsoever
the flaws just didn't get published in the same aggressive way and customers were more obedient... so to say
(I only learned that recently when I got a 2 cards TDM Mix system + 8 channel interface for 200 bucks)
browsing the legacy documentation is one horror story chasing the other, seriously

today I'm more focussed on acoustic stuff, mostly guitar and prefer the interactivity of sound processing on an iPad
some Scope synths are sonically out of reach for the tablet, but some (in their domain) are even 'better'
but their big, big advantage is accessibility, tweaked in fraction of the time it would take in Scope
almost any app can effortly sample subresults to be used in other contexts
there's sophisticated midi sequencing with curve driven CCs or XY-pads

but: I can feed Scope sounds into this or use Scope later during the final mix
the routing is second to none which makes it an invaluable tool even leading in today's standards

cheers, Tom

[ta7]

Hi Astroman for me the scope platform it is like a hardware synth. Timeless.

Another thing is i bought now a luna2 card. If you say the luna card must be the master, do i must register my keyfile from the pulsar1 card to the luna2 card?

Cheers Tomas

[garyb]

the Luna card alone won't change things.
the Pulsar1 will always reduce PCI performance.

it's only possible to switch the v5.1 keys to the Luna card if the Pulsar1 is broken and you return it to me via support. otherwise, you would need to purchase v5.1 for the Luna card, if you wanted to use it by itself. if both cards are in the same computer, then you don't need to do anything with the keys. i can provide a small discount if you wish to buy v5.1 for the Luna card, if you write to support.

[astroman]

Gary, you may have more details than me, but the software mentioned is the one with the blue mixer...
does it mean a version 3 or 4 key doesn't work ?
(hadn't thought of this at all, as I cant't even remember such a case...)

cheers, Tom

[ta7]

Hello you two,

actually I bought this this card because of this explanation from astroman

quote
if you like the system in general, add one of the 2nd generation cards, they are cheap today
the new card can be set as 'master' and the PC uses the faster card communication
(no special installation needed)

Now the statement from Gary confuses me.

quote
the Luna card alone won't change things.
the Pulsar1 will always reduce PCI performance.

Can I use luna card with scope 4.5? And with my ALLKEYS.SKF which I am always using to install my pulsar 1 card?

Hi Gary,
thanks for your offer, but at the moment I can not afford the 5.1 software.

Many thanks for a reply
greetings Tomas

[astroman]

of course you can and 4.x is what I expected as keyfile
but even if you had 5.1 for the Pulsar it should run with the Luna as 'master'
the term is a bit misleading:
it just means that the card is detected first and Scope automatically assigns it for system communication
so it's considered master, but that doesn't relate to keys

I've used a Luna as master for a Pulsar One myself
there is a small drop in performance but it's neglectable imho
the motherboard's influence has been much larger in each single case (there were quite some)

if card assignment starts from left to right or vice versa depends on motherboard
so the Luna has to be either the leftmost or the rightmost card

cheers, Tom

[garyb]

it does not matter which is "master".

in previous versions of Scope, you did need to make the newer card the master card, but this was only to get the lower LATENCY of the newer cards(down below 13ms @ 44.1khz). with current versions, there's no need to be sure that the newer card is master, lower latency when newer cards are in the same computer. this does not change PCI usage however, older cards always lower PCI performance, PERIOD.

[astroman]

well, this is about an older system - version 4.5
if he doesn't do live playing the improved latency may in fact be ignored, but usually it's appreciated

I've run countless of masterverb tests with various cards and mobos
a Scope 15 DSP card delivered almost the same results with or without an old Pulsar connected
(iirc something like 12 instead of 14 masterverbs on a PIII)
I'm absolutely shure to have run that test for curiosity's sake

but as no other keys are needed ta can do the test himself

cheers, Tom

[ta7]

Hi guys. Again, the preliminary statements. So I'm going to try as Astroman described it. Install the Luna card and run them as a master. My question, is there to consider anything in particular? Or do I have the Luna just plug in and is good? So the key file that I have, I do not have to register to the Luna card?

Cheers Tomas

[astroman]

if you have a scope 4.x keyfile for the Pulsar that's all you need
In know for shure, because I did the very same with a Scope 6 DSP card that had no keyfile for exactly that purpose - improve the performance of an old Pulsar (which had a ton of keys)

btw I checked some of my entries in the masterverb thread (funny after all those years)
there was a time I was running 3 Pulsar Ones and 6 masterverbs was the best ever achieved
with a Scope 6 DSP and 1 Pulsar One I never ended with less than 10 (depending on chipset)

cheers, Tom

[garyb]

Tom, only your computer worked like that, mine sure never did.
many other customers have been thought this before, i'm not just saying things to make others unhappy.

anyway, there's no harm in trying. if it works, i'm glad for everyone.

that is NOT how the cards work, or should work, however. any computer with a 1st generation card should see reduced PCI performance. period. done. end of story. again, if there's an exception somehow, hooray!

[ta7]

anyway guys. try I'll either way because the card is already purchased. But one thing again that I have not yet understood in this whole debate entirely. How is that now with the MasterCard. Do I have define it extra in the settings of scope 4.5?

Cheers Tomas

[garyb]

usually, Scope will call the first card, the one closest to the graphics card, usually the top of the motherboard, the master card. the system will also usually call the type2 card master, when a type1 card is also in the computer. there is an edit that you can do to the cset.ini file to manually force this, but you probably don't need it. if ULLI can be set below 13ms @44.1khz, then the Luna is the master card.

you can also delete the cset.ini before starting Scope. when Scope opens a new cset will be generated. the cset file has all the basic program settings, so you can mess everything up pretty good by playing with it. deleting it is one way to nuke all settings and rediscover the cards.

more DSPs is always good. you'll like the extra juice and the extra i/o, i'm sure. you have an S/TDM cable to connect the cards, right?