Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

An area for people to discuss Scope related problems, issues, etc.

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hubird

Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by hubird »

garyb wrote:if you have a fix, maybe contact Holger. he might be interested in some trade or ?....
Djmikron has a workaround...a working one even, so functionally it's indeed a fix (respect).
I would be reassured if the fix got to be done from inside tho.
Still I support a workaround, especially if it's possible make it look like cc assigning works in current GUI's.
Good luck :)
petal
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by petal »

A possible "solution" could be to "allow" the ScopeSync team to implement ScopeSync in a number of suitable Scope synths.

That way we wouldn't have to wait until SCOPE 6 is finished (my guess is that it could still take a while until it is ready).

This would also help promote the use of ScopeSync which actually is quite a unique feature to the platform and it would bring out an even better controller implementation to these treassured synth gems.

But, I don't know if this is even possible - what do you think?
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garyb
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by garyb »

no need for quotes on solution and allow.

this might be possible if all parties are interested and can work it out.
petal
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by petal »

OK - First of all we need to figure out if the ScopeSync team are interested in doing the work.

It would be a cool starting package for ScopeSync, having a number of the bigger Scope Synth all hardwired and ready to go.

I'll try and get in contact with them and see if they are interested in the idea.
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by petal »

Let's hope the ScopeSync crew likes the idea :)

http://www.bcmodular.co.uk/forum/viewto ... f=11&t=277
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by w_ellis »

I've replied there ;)
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at0m
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by at0m »

hi petal (and others:),

These bugs are as old as the cards/devices. Some came to light early 2000s when I started programming the Pc1600x more thoroughly in an attempt to completely midi control devices.

Much MIDI talk on my "MIDI Exposed" topic, amongst others it lists the following CC# as reserved on Scope:
CC# 0,32: bank select & program change,
CC# 1: modulation, is reset (read set to 0) on midi Stop
CC# 6: MSB (its LSB will be in CC# 32-63 but 33-63 are perfectly usable for fader remote)
CC# 98-99: Non-Registered Parameter Number (NRPN) LSB-MSB
CC# 100-101: Registered Parameter Number (NRPN) LSB-MSB
CC# 121-127: Reserved for Channel Mode messages.
[edit] My work-around for the "loading MIDI preset makes underlying params jump" is to wiggle known erratic params, or to reload synth presets. More here.

I hope this adds,
at0m.
more has been done with less
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petal
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by petal »

Hi Atom,

Yeah, I prolly should have done some forum searches on this issue.

I wonder how hese bugs survived this long without being fixed. Several updates of Scope has been released since at least Minimax and Uknow was released?

Thanks for the link - I'll look it through.

Cheers,
Thomas
Last edited by petal on Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marco
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by Marco »

There is a Bug, i hab this Problem Tool, and im sad that Sonic core Company doesnt try to fix
:wink: out and about for music production. Are you still configguring your Studio :lol: music first!
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by djmicron »

i tried in the past to contact sonic core, but never had a reply, so i'll try again.

In short, with the protected device(that means no sonic core support), i can simply develop a midi surface to be placed in the middle, between the hardware controller and the minimax(or whatever other device with some similar cc related bugs) that will respond to preset changes without bugs and that will send the cc values to the buggy minimax(which reacts fine to incoming cc's) and this have the downside of converting all needed presets for the midi surface device.

WIth sonic core support(that means working on the unprotected device) fixes can be applied straight into the minimax without the need of workarounds and this doesn't require new scope 6 functionality or anything else.

Other parameter controlling methods such as scopesync are based on audio streams and as we can see on modular modules, all parameters on scope devices can be modulated at high resolution over audio, i use a beta device to let analogue mixers act as hi res controllers, but this is a little bit off topic and can't solve midi cc bugs on the minimax, it can be an additional feature.
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by petal »

Thanks for looking into the possibilities to solve this problem.

About your "Workaround" with a device before the Minimax, I think it might be a bit too much to ask for a solution maybe not that many people would use.

Most people would benefit from having the devices fixed properly with SonicCores support.

If Sonic Core are actually willing to work together with the ScopeSync team to let them implement ScopeSync into their Synths, they might also be willing to "out source" the fixing of this midi assignment bug to other trusted developers. I guess that was part of the idea of Open Scope in the first place. I think this would be the best way to go about it, if it makes sense in the bigger picture of the future plans for the development of Scope. But if all devices need to be "rebuild" for Scope 6 anyways, maybe we simply just have to wait for that glorious moment in the future when it is ready for release.

Will Ellis said that ScopeSync will be going OSC instead of "Audio" in the near future. Implementing OSC in the devices makes much more sense to me than midi ever will, so maybe the solution lies there somehow.

The reason I wanted to map all controls on the synths was to get my "hands on" the sound exploring of synths in general now that I have a great controller in Push, and I have discovered that old devices with the old preset system can be saved with cc assigned to the controllers - This solution works here and now!
So I'll be exploring the old devices that I have lying around. Saturn and Wavelenght Avalon Euro looks interesting and I'm sure there are other old synths as well, that I can have fun with while I wait for the midi-bug to be fixed.

Anyways, thanks again for spending your time trying to find a solution to this problem.

Cheers,
Thomas
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Marco
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by Marco »

The Problem is, Scope 6 is planen to come in the yeah 2020.... Or never.
Now wie can fix that with Sdk Version and assign fixed CC Nummer for each Controller , But im Not a programmer im a Musican
:wink: out and about for music production. Are you still configguring your Studio :lol: music first!
jksuperstar
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by jksuperstar »

Petal, OSC won't replace the Audio connection that ScopeSync uses...that serves to get data without jitter across the Native/DSP boundary. OSC will get data from anywhere into GUI or VST GUI (instead of MIDI), but it still needs to get into the DSPs reliably.

But, ScopeSync IS the type of middle-man that djmicron is talking about. And can work more seemlessly when scope 6 does arrive, since it is based on JUCE.

Also, I was in the middle of doing this exact thing with ScopeSync and DJMicron's modular versions of Scope Synths, but I need to build a new PC before continuing.... :x
petal
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by petal »

Oh - ok, I misunderstood what Will Ellis wrote then.

Exactly what were you doing with DJMicrons Modular versions of Scope Synths , could you perhaps elaborate a bit on the topic?
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by w_ellis »

Without wishing to bore people with the technical details, the new version will be replacing the audio connection into Scope. We are using the async method of the Scope libraries to get data from outside of Scope into the DSP world. It makes setting up a ScopeSync connection a lot simpler, especially if you want to control from a different computer.
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by jksuperstar »

Thanks Will. I thought it had been more related to MIDI replacement, my bad. (This means the ScopeSync GUIs really could be a more ready replacement for the Scope GUI). The Audio version is nice, since someone can route any DAW (from MAC, etc) into a SCOPE card or XITE, without even passing through a PC. That's pretty powerful in it's own right.

Petal, I had begun using scope sync to talk with modular. There are some versions of synths (like MiniMax) that djmicron made that are also in the modular shell. I was trying to put 2 + 2 together, but now I need a new PC to continue....

Here's the modular versions:
http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31095
petal
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by petal »

OK,

Good luck with the new computer. I hope you find a solution although I don't quite understand how a Modular-shell will help in this situation!?

You might want to check these controllers first on Minimax: Osc-range, Osc-Frequency, OSC-Wave, Osc-Volume, AMP-Sustain, Chorus: Rate, Depth, on/off. There might be more controllers bugged, but I stopped investigating.

I also noticed that the Filter cutoff on Profit 5 is bugged if you try to save a cc assignment to it. It will be set to zero upon reload. Reloading presets wont fix it.
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by jksuperstar »

Just using ScopeSync magic to assign control signals (not MIDI) to any CC assigned parameter inside a modular shell. It's a backdoor method that I thought was hopeful.
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by w_ellis »

You'll still be able to route from any DAW, and from a different computer, as the VST plugin will be communicating over OSC. If anyone has a Mac and fancies a little challenge, they could try creating an AU version too. No reason why it shouldn't just work.

Anyway, enough talk about it, better get it finished ;)

P.S. I'm not sure that what you're trying to do with Micron's modules is actually possible, but worth having a chat with Sharc, in case I'm missing something.
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Re: Midi CC presets bugged? - yes, confirmed!

Post by jksuperstar »

I know, I might be leaning a bit too much on the object-orientedness of SCOPE.

I should just pull out my old XP motherboard just to see what I could make happen. Maybe I'll make a pot of coffee tonight and see what magic can happen.
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