sys files - issue on latest Win 8 x64 - CAUSE CONFIRMED

[dante]

I don´t have intention to type a full reply to this post.
I´ll just only let you know I was interested in WHY you want to use Win 8.1 (orWin8,- doesn´t matter ...) over Win7 for a DAW machine.

No concrete answer,- and in your PM you call it a fiasco while it sounds different here in the thread.

Like I said - I choose to try to keep everything up to date as much as possible. It's a choice. The closest to concrete is this : I want to set this DAW up once for 5 years so it makes sense to have the latest OS and application software possible.

Conversely, I see no (concrete) reason in buying a brand new DAW with an old OS.

I called it a fiasco because its set me back a few days due firstly to trying to find solutions, then secondly, having to re-install Windows, Scope, Cubase, Reason and Kontakt - the latter 3 having additional updates and registration processes.

And I think also I will have to re-register this Win8 Pro on new DAW because it is registered currently to the old one, and if I do that, then should I not also deregister Win 8.1 from the new daw, and re-install it on the old daw, again having to re-install Windows, Scope, Cubase, Reason and Kontakt.

Oh - and then - if I ever have to use the old DAW as a backup (its intended purpose) if something ever went wrong with the new DAW - I'll be back to not being able to run the DAS plugs again !! Unless of course I do yet another deinstall - re-install

I think all that - because of one lousy Microsoft update - qualifies as a 'fiasco'

[fidox]

I can confirm that under Windows 8.1 64bit Home version also freezes while loading DAS350 - DAS COEF11.sys.
It's different machine, different configuration,older mobo, other CPU... just Luna II installed (for listening music), Windows 8.1 64bit Home version with all updates installed.

I have just tried for fun, cause i wanted to know if it's the same, like on my music computer with Pro version installed, without spring update.

Best,
Matej

[dante]

That's 3 machines ! I was convinced at 2.

[wouterz]

Could it be related to this:

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=33143

[fidox]

Thanks for your tip, but it's more related to spring update Win 8.1 and running DAS COEF11.sys file.

When i load , for example DAS C350 or MasterIT, which uses coef11.sys file , computer freezes right away
and i figure out, that this behaviour is cause by last big spring update for Win 8.1 home or pro version , it's the same.
But on other machine i have Win pro version and i can un-install that spring update, here at home version no, cause it was purchased later then spring update was
released and it's already part of installation, without that update installed works normal. (pro version was purchased before this update,. so i can manually un-installl it)

Best,
Matej

[wouterz]

I also had freezes under Windows 8.1 64 bit, one of the Zarg synths. Uninstalling KB2919355 solved this, but I'm going to install KB2919355 again because of this:

"Windows 8.1 Update is a cumulative set of security updates, critical updates and updates. You must install Windows 8.1 Update to ensure that your computer can continue to receive future Windows Updates, including security updates."

http://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download ... x?id=42335

If you use your DAW to browse the Internet it is not recommended to uninstall KB2919355 because you will not receive any security update after that. For me it is not a problem because I'm going to use a dual boot system. One for music production (without Internet connection and virus scanner) and one for the all the other stuff.

[dante]

Wouterz, which Zarg synth ? - and if you run Scope as administrator, did it tell you what file it cant load ?

We might as well document all affected plugs / files.

[wouterz]

Wouterz, which Zarg synth ? - and if you run Scope as administrator, did it tell you what file it cant load ?

We might as well document all affected plugs / files.

Quantum Wave, I got the freeze while running Scope as administrator without any message.

[dante]

Ok, I notice my Zarg bundle comes with 6 sys files - JBCtrl and JBMidi - three of each. You could try your unblock trick on those.

[Ripper]

As related earlier:

I have the same issue in Windows 8.1 x64. In my case is with Solaris Plugin and Matomat.

Usually it will restart once and then it will accept both plugins without issues. The first times it needed more than one try to get stable.

[dante]

Not the case with me. I went through multiple reboots for each attempted workaround, sometimes days apart.

Same result. The plugins would just not work under the OEM Win 8.1 I was sold.

[wouterz]

The unlock trick did not work.

My system automatically installed KB2919355 again and the freezes came back.

Could someone try the following:

Rename the sys file extension that causes the freeze to sys2. So "DAS COEF11.sys" will be named "DAS COEF11.sys2". I don't have my DAS keys yet so I can't test the DAS devices but the Quantum Wave is loading without a freeze or "file not found" error message and I get sound out of it (I renamed all the "JB...64.sys" files to "JB...64.sys2").

Maybe I'm doing something wrong here or maybe Scope has some sort of search mechanism that can find the sys2 files and Windows security leaves sys2 files alone.

[wouterz]

Could someone try the following:

Rename the sys file extension that causes the freeze to sys2. So "DAS COEF11.sys" will be named "DAS COEF11.sys2". I don't have my DAS keys yet so I can't test the DAS devices but the Quantum Wave is loading without a freeze or "file not found" error message and I get sound out of it (I renamed all the "JB...64.sys" files to "JB...64.sys2").

Maybe I'm doing something wrong here or maybe Scope has some sort of search mechanism that can find the sys2 files and Windows security leaves sys2 files alone.

Never mind, I got a freeze again

[dante]

Yeah there was a couple of times I thought it was fixed when the plugs stayed up for a few seconds then KABLOOEY !!!

I am a long way from testing it again anytime soon since downgrading to 8.0 Pro, the OEM 8.1 has now been redeployed to the Mrs' i5 2.5 GHz lappy w/ Office 2013 for her emails etc. Under Win 7 this laptop used to take over 4 mins to reboot, now it takes 55 seconds under 8.1

[nomagic]

About KB2919355: there are some informations about how to prepare your system before installation of KB2919355. E.g. all patches have to be installed before, and a "preparation-update" KB2919442.
After installation there are three packages to be installed (64bit):
KB2932046
KB2937592
KB2938439

I'm not sure if it depends, but Patch KB2975719 ("update 2") is known to be problematic. But there seems to be a new release since this week.

My OS is still Win 8.0 (new machine, same idea as dante "why install old software on a new pc"). I did no update to win 8.1 because i read about so many problems, so i don't know if this solves the problem.

---
Update: I could'nt resist - had to try

It works now wit Windows 8.1 Pro (Update) 64 bit.
I installed all updates for Windows 8, then Win 8.1 over Win 8 (the update from the store).

DAS MASTERIT EQ, DAS LEGEND, DAS C350 - all running together in my project.

Mattomat still crashes my system...

[fidox]

Yesterday i was playing little arround with few devices at my computer with just Luna II installed , Scope 5.1 and Windows 8.1 Home edition 64bit.
Windows 8.1 is updated with all, latest updates.
I also get instant freeze with :
-VDAT
and
-STS Samplers
other devices works (loads) fine so far. (those which i can load just with Luna II card)

[garyb]

no STS in 64bit windows...

[dante]

Update: I could'nt resist - had to try It works now wit Windows 8.1 Pro (Update) 64 bit.
I installed all updates for Windows 8, then Win 8.1 over Win 8 (the update from the store).

DAS MASTERIT EQ, DAS LEGEND, DAS C350 - all running together in my project. Mattomat still crashes my system...

Interesting I missed this post. At least it gives another option when the time comes. At the moment though I aint touching it. Maybe Win 10 ?

[garyb]

it's not that unusual for an update to break complicated code like windows. it usually gets fixed. if it doesn't, then you blame the application...

[dante]

In my case, I dont blame anyone in particular. I know the facts - I can choose between compatibility or sound. In my case I chose sound.

The C350L is a version of the C350 that does not use SYS file, hence it is not affected. I asked Eric if he could custom build (for a price) a version of MASTERIT that doesn't use SYS file. But he said that would be like powering a Bugatti Veyron with a Volkswagon engine....

I can see his point, as the MASTERIT is precision far more complicated than the C350. Its quite possibly the best sounding plugin I have used period - native or DSP.

The fact it uses SYS file is by all accounts one of the reasons it sounds superior to anything purely SDK - it goes beyond what DSP alone can do in calculating the EQ coefficients. Case in evidence ... Dirk Brainwox wanting the algo rights for BX Digital and not getting it. Unfortunately the price for going outside the SDK has turned out to be ... in the long run ... compatibility.

I could probably question the meaning of 'Plugins on Demand' on front of DAS website, but then again, I got the customised ScopeRise mixer for zilch which is a more accurate and transparent summing engine than anything else I can lay my hands on and has defined my sound ever since. So its horses for courses, swings and roundabouts etc...