Hi,
Let me try to re-explain the problem (by now I think it's a headroom problem). I use a Pulsar2 (v2.04a) + cubaseVST32 5R1 and an E-mu Audio Production studio.
The S/Pdif out of the APS goes into the Pulsar2's S/Pdif. My output meters (of the APS) show me a maximum level of
-1db. In the BigMixer (v2B) it's input reads approx.
-4.5db. I connect this to a 'mix' input.
I do the same for Cubase. Master output says -1db while the BigMixer input reaches +2db. Master output on the Bigmizer is going way into the red by now (causing some serious clipping). If I lower the (Cubase) input volume (in BigMixer) everything seems to be normal.
If I use a lot of tracks (both cubase and APS) the problem's getting worse. I end up lowering all mixerstrips in Cubase with approx. -10db. Same goes for the APS stuff. This leaves me with a very soft mixdown....
Any Ideas?
P.S. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. That was not meant to be. Let's call it an off day....
BigMixer (v2b) overload... (by MarcelG)
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Guest
Subject: About Headroom
There are some problems in the digital consoles or digital audio gear that don't exist in the analog ones:
1)The voltage corresponding to the 0dBFs is NOT a DEFINED STANDARD, so each manufacturer use different voltage values for the saturation limit, mainly regarding the ADC/DAC converters specs.
2)This makes that the standard 0dbVu = 0.775 mV at 1000Hz that represents the 0dB in analog gear, don't has a corresponding precise value in the digital devices.
3) As a common but NOT STANDARD value, many manufactures use digital -14dBfs as equal to analog 0dbVu (0.775 mV at 1000 Hz).
This is due the first ADAT recorders represent in it's vumeters a calibration sine signal of 1000 Hz and 0.775 mV with a value of -14dBfs.
4)The Big Mixer Vb2 2.xx version has in theory 24dB of headroom, but in a very different sense of what is understood as headroom (in fact a concept that comes from the ANALOG world)
It can't have headroom in the input preamps due it HAS NOT input preamps, so must be discarded the MAIN source of "headroom" as it's known in general.
What seems(???) to do the BM BV2, is that it applies a bit reduction to the incomming signal, probably truncating the four lower bits , this allows to have the 0dBfs at -24db (bit 28 instead of bit 32) and then applying some sort of compensation that increase the level for the output.
Also this allows to have 24dB "extra" in the buses for mixing signals, a digital trick that does not represent what really headroom is.
What's REALLY IMPORTANT is that a mixer with headroom SOUNDS DIFFERENT when the signals overload the preamps or the buses:
Increasing the level by little steps of a signal over the 0dBVu in an analog mixer, the tonal balance of the signal (sound colour or timbre)changes slightly , increasing the distortion and getting something very similar to an overdrive when it reachs the maximum headroom limit.
This is impossible to get in a "full digital" mixer as the virtual BigMixer VB2 is, due it HAS NOT PREAMPS or digital emulation of analog preamps.
Near all hardware hi-end digital mixers have ANALOG PREAMPS, due up today does not exist hi-fi digital preamps and the theoric designs require so fast DSP processors for each one that the cost of a mixer could be many times millonary.
I think that this could explain some aparent lack of "accuracy" between different virtual mixers or hardware converters.
There are some problems in the digital consoles or digital audio gear that don't exist in the analog ones:
1)The voltage corresponding to the 0dBFs is NOT a DEFINED STANDARD, so each manufacturer use different voltage values for the saturation limit, mainly regarding the ADC/DAC converters specs.
2)This makes that the standard 0dbVu = 0.775 mV at 1000Hz that represents the 0dB in analog gear, don't has a corresponding precise value in the digital devices.
3) As a common but NOT STANDARD value, many manufactures use digital -14dBfs as equal to analog 0dbVu (0.775 mV at 1000 Hz).
This is due the first ADAT recorders represent in it's vumeters a calibration sine signal of 1000 Hz and 0.775 mV with a value of -14dBfs.
4)The Big Mixer Vb2 2.xx version has in theory 24dB of headroom, but in a very different sense of what is understood as headroom (in fact a concept that comes from the ANALOG world)
It can't have headroom in the input preamps due it HAS NOT input preamps, so must be discarded the MAIN source of "headroom" as it's known in general.
What seems(???) to do the BM BV2, is that it applies a bit reduction to the incomming signal, probably truncating the four lower bits , this allows to have the 0dBfs at -24db (bit 28 instead of bit 32) and then applying some sort of compensation that increase the level for the output.
Also this allows to have 24dB "extra" in the buses for mixing signals, a digital trick that does not represent what really headroom is.
What's REALLY IMPORTANT is that a mixer with headroom SOUNDS DIFFERENT when the signals overload the preamps or the buses:
Increasing the level by little steps of a signal over the 0dBVu in an analog mixer, the tonal balance of the signal (sound colour or timbre)changes slightly , increasing the distortion and getting something very similar to an overdrive when it reachs the maximum headroom limit.
This is impossible to get in a "full digital" mixer as the virtual BigMixer VB2 is, due it HAS NOT PREAMPS or digital emulation of analog preamps.
Near all hardware hi-end digital mixers have ANALOG PREAMPS, due up today does not exist hi-fi digital preamps and the theoric designs require so fast DSP processors for each one that the cost of a mixer could be many times millonary.
I think that this could explain some aparent lack of "accuracy" between different virtual mixers or hardware converters.
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Guest
Subject: well...
just to ensure that it´s not the problem: you are sure that you are using the bigmixer from version 2.04a, and not the one saved with old projects? if you´re not sure, replace that device.
the 20dB-headroom was integrated in the bigmixer with version 2.0, so that may be the cause. but your posting sounds like the clipping occurs before the headroom is applied. are yuo using mono or stereo channels? how many dB do you decrease the middle of the panning? (as there are -3dB or -6dB possible)
well, at least, what does support@creamware.de say to your problem?
gruß,
Mo
just to ensure that it´s not the problem: you are sure that you are using the bigmixer from version 2.04a, and not the one saved with old projects? if you´re not sure, replace that device.
the 20dB-headroom was integrated in the bigmixer with version 2.0, so that may be the cause. but your posting sounds like the clipping occurs before the headroom is applied. are yuo using mono or stereo channels? how many dB do you decrease the middle of the panning? (as there are -3dB or -6dB possible)
well, at least, what does support@creamware.de say to your problem?
gruß,
Mo