After years of PC crashes, I've finally solved the problem

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:33 pm

The crashes were exactly as mentioned by many users, the audio gets stuck in a loop and soon after the PC freezes. The only remedy was to reboot the PC. Now my system is stable even with Active Sync and Clock Out signals turned on.
My system is a Supermicro P4DC6+, dual Xeon 2.8GHz with ACPI enabled (don't have to disable ACPI). The fix was to disable onboard audio and LAN using two respective jumper pins. Don't look at the IRQ sharing in Windows, get the manual of the motherboard and check for a statment regarding the sharing of IRQ on the PCI slots you are interested in. See the attached picture. I had the Scope SRB in Slot 1 and Pulsar 2 in Slot 2 and even with the audio device turned off in the BIOS it still would crash. Although that could have been also because of the LAN sharing an IRQ with Pulsar, I don't know which of those two slots was the problem because I disabled both the AC7 and LAN at the same time.
So all is bliss now. I left my sequencer running for hours and it worked.
STS 5000 sampler works now too. I'm not afraid to play my keyboard anymore.

Leper · Post by **Leper** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:10 pm

OMG thanks for the info.. this sounds exactly like the problem I'm having!

Just one question: how do you access the internet now? Seperate network card?

Post by **garyb** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:59 pm

seperate computer?

okantah · Post by **okantah** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:40 pm

From begin my asus.p5 wd2e premuim was crashes for using sts samplers,it's was trouble for some time,After standard mode installation no more problems.
believe me all onboard active inclusive internet pure 24hrs a day no crashes.
cheers

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:13 am

Leper wrote:OMG thanks for the info.. this sounds exactly like the problem I'm having!

Just one question: how do you access the internet now? Seperate network card?

Another PC, laptop. My desktop was never connected to the Internet. I did use the LAN on a local network to transfer files between my laptop and my desktop but I can do that also using a USB external drive. So I don't really need the LAN.

Neutron · Post by **Neutron** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:10 am

Disable AC97 in the bios if you are not using it as well

capacitor · Post by **capacitor** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:45 pm

Neutron wrote:Disable AC97 in the bios if you are not using it as well

Why?

capacitor · Post by **capacitor** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:10 pm

Bingo, I'm filing this info away for a future Scope build, thanks!

A quick question about your config: are you running video through the AGP Pro slot, or PCI-E?

valis · Post by **valis** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:25 pm

Bingo fwiw I have the exact same motherboard (p4DC6+) running my scope cards. With my p4DC6+ I have the onboard audio disabled in the BIOS, I still use the onboard NIC, and I use an sblive oem with the kx project drivers for my windows & consumer audio type tasks (streaming videos/youtube etc stuff). I haven't had any lockups to date but I will keep it in mind, I do wonder though if you'd like to compare BIOS versions & settings with me.

I am NOT suggesting you undo your magic as it seems you finally have a stable system. It's just that I've never had stability issues, even with Hyperthreading enabled (I leave it disabled because it's a performance hit on prestonia core Xeons and any Xeons in the 400/533 mhz fsb era). I also keep the system with ACPI set to on, Pnp is on etc. In fact most of the tweaks I do are just on the order of turning off unnecessary windows subsystems (drive indexing, unnecessary services etc).

I should also mention that the system has run very well for me for about 5 years now, and it's currently my secondary PC as I just recently built a newer Supermicro x7DWA-N system (2 quad-core 2.66ghz/1333 xeons for 8 cores total, 8Gb ram etc now). So I don't tax it as much as I once did but I haven't had any lockups doing the things that I do. I use it not only for my music (personal pastime) but also for doing quite a bit of audio processing & recording for clients. Video & audio needs are becoming very common for my clients. So it has a wide variety of uses (recording, playback/processing/mixing, synthesis etc) and the only real issue that I know of is that Vorb will bsod the pc (Vorb seems to only like single cpu machines in my experience, same with some other 1.x & 2.x era devices).

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:19 am

capacitor wrote:Bingo, I'm filing this info away for a future Scope build, thanks!

A quick question about your config: are you running video through the AGP Pro slot, or PCI-E?

There are no PCIe slots in this motherboard. A video card is installed in the AGP slot.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:28 am

valis wrote:Bingo fwiw I have the exact same motherboard (p4DC6+) running my scope cards. With my p4DC6+ I have the onboard audio disabled in the BIOS, I still use the onboard NIC, and I use an sblive oem with the kx project drivers for my windows & consumer audio type tasks (streaming videos/youtube etc stuff). I haven't had any lockups to date but I will keep it in mind, I do wonder though if you'd like to compare BIOS versions & settings with me.

I am NOT suggesting you undo your magic as it seems you finally have a stable system. It's just that I've never had stability issues, even with Hyperthreading enabled (I leave it disabled because it's a performance hit on prestonia core Xeons and any Xeons in the 400/533 mhz fsb era). I also keep the system with ACPI set to on, Pnp is on etc. In fact most of the tweaks I do are just on the order of turning off unnecessary windows subsystems (drive indexing, unnecessary services etc).

I should also mention that the system has run very well for me for about 5 years now, and it's currently my secondary PC as I just recently built a newer Supermicro x7DWA-N system (2 quad-core 2.66ghz/1333 xeons for 8 cores total, 8Gb ram etc now). So I don't tax it as much as I once did but I haven't had any lockups doing the things that I do. I use it not only for my music (personal pastime) but also for doing quite a bit of audio processing & recording for clients. Video & audio needs are becoming very common for my clients. So it has a wide variety of uses (recording, playback/processing/mixing, synthesis etc) and the only real issue that I know of is that Vorb will bsod the pc (Vorb seems to only like single cpu machines in my experience, same with some other 1.x & 2.x era devices).

I had the AC97 audio disabled in the BIOS before and I still had crashes. I disabled the LAN because it shared an IRQ on PCI slot #1.

Sure I can compare the BIOS settings with yours. I've seen the BIOS pages so many times that now they are burned in my memory. Hyperthreading is enabled, ACPI is enabled, PCI latency is set to 255, etc. What I'd like to know is at what kind of temperatures your system is running. Did you install the temp monitoring application, SuperoDoctor?

capacitor · Post by **capacitor** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:24 am

BingoTheClowno wrote:There are no PCIe slots in this motherboard. A video card is installed in the AGP slot.

My bad, mistook PCI-64 for PCIe

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:10 am

BingoTheClowno wrote:I had the AC97 audio disabled in the BIOS before and I still had crashes. I disabled the LAN because it shared an IRQ on PCI slot #1.

Sure I can compare the BIOS settings with yours. I've seen the BIOS pages so many times that now they are burned in my memory. Hyperthreading is enabled, ACPI is enabled, PCI latency is set to 255, etc. What I'd like to know is at what kind of temperatures your system is running. Did you install the temp monitoring application, SuperoDoctor?

I have had it installed before but it isn't atm. I can certainly install it though. Temps for the cpu's in Sandra/Speedfan are usually around 35C-36C at idle and 41C under load. I use stock Intel 'tunnel' style heatsinks with 60mm sanyo fans, though I'm probably about to change them I've had one slowly groaning its way towards death for a week or two now (after 3 years of service mind you, the fans have been replaced once already). In the upper 5.25 bays my HD temps are around 36C, with only the single drive in the lower 3.25 detacheable bay running at temps that are semi-hot (45-47C), hotter than the case's ambient temp which is usually 34C-36C depending on usage.

I keep my room between 22C & 26C (70-78F) via AC or heating (depending on the season) and the computers are beneath a desk in a semi-enclosed space. That particular machine is covered with a blanket, then they are enclosed with makeshift sidewalls around the desk, so it's not exactly getting the best airflow. However both machines are in full towers with plenty of fans for moving air through the case. The p4DC6+ is in this case from SM although it's EOL and has a diff PSU (650W) which was necessary after I put a few 10000rpm drives in it.

I never used PCI slot1 and I manually map my card usage between the BIOS Post screen (pause/break to see it for longer) and the manual info.

If you can give me specific steps that used to crash your computer with Scope or a DAW I'll certainly give a shot at reproducing them. I'd hate to discover it by accident someday. I can say that my JD-800's active sensing will definately bsod the PC, but that's a known issue across the board for Scope & using a usb midi interface is a simple fix. Aside from that I've only ever had Vorb take this PC out, at least since 3.1c finally brought stability to SMP machines.

Also, unless you're running a 400mhz Xeon I'm unfamiliar with, you're probably using Prestonia cores. I recommend you disable Hyperthreading because in that particular core HT brings a 10% performance hit on average unless an app is specifically HT (not SMP) aware. The extra set of integer registers confuses non-threaded integer operations causing constant pipeline flushes. The p4's scheduling didn't get better with HT until later, which is why it was completely hidden from users of consumer p4 chips during that era of the cpu's (prestonia & northwood were pretty much the same die layout, the microcode & scheduling changes come from the BIOS & 'north' chip).

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:36 am

I get the same temperatures and I do have the same case. However I modified it a little bit. You know that big 7" fan in the back of the case, it is gone and instead I cut a hole in its place and I'm just using a regular desk fan that is much more quieter and pushes more air than original one.

I think my Xeons are Prestonia, I'm not sure, but I can't change the hyperthreading setting now because I registered some Native Instruments vsts with that ,4 CPU, setting. If change it to 2 CPU the registration is not valid anymore. I will do that maybe some other time.

To reproduce the crashes, have the STS 5000 and Prodyssey in a project with MIDI IN connected to both of them. The Active sensing was on but the Clock Out was off. It would crash much faster with Clock out on. Then just play your keyboard for 30-60 seconds.
I have my sequencer, Yamaha RS 7000 connected to the Pulsar MIDI IN and my Yamaha S30 keyboard is connected to the RS 7000. The RS 7000 echoes the S30 to the Pulsar MIDI IN. Now both Active Sensing and Clock Out are turned on in the RS 7000 and it is rock solid. No more crashes.

I have a Scope SRB and a Pulsar 2 card. The Scope card is in PCI slot #1, Pulsar is in 2. I chose specifically those two slots just because the sharing device could be turned of f with a jumper option. The other two slots cannot have their sharing devices turned off.

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:01 am

I use slots 3 & 4, I've never noticed a problem sharing with the u320 adaptec controller on the 64bit pci bus as technically it's a separate bus, at least to the interrupt controller. AC97 & MC97 are disabled in the bios. Active sensing definately crashed the pc before, but again that's only with my jd800 connected directly to one of the 2 Scope cards (Pulsar1 & Pulsar2 technically speaking).

The 32bit PCI bus actually goes *through* the 64bit bus, but according to the test sheets i've seen the only time the 64bit bus impacts the 32bit bus performance is when you swamp the 64bit bus with data, say from a raid 7 array going full tilt. I use the u320 scsi but no raid, just drive1 for OS/apps and drive2 for swap/audio temp, and neither go over 40-50mb/s.

I'll load up sts5000 & something else heavy and do some tests, though I would have to chain the jd800 through my main rig to get it to scope. I don't have proodyssey, it's the only one of the creamware synths I never got, but I do have Solaris, pro-one & protone, etc.

What is MC97 btw?

valis · Post by **valis** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:02 am

Oh, software modem. I don't think this is implemented on our boards is it?

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:42 pm

I have no idea, I never used it and never had a need for a modem.
You have a SCSI 320 controller in one of 64bit slots? That will cause problems if you have Active Sens turned on.

valis · Post by **valis** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:50 am

The 64bit slots are empty, the P4DC6+ has dual onboard scsi which is integrated directly into the 64bit bus. It's u160 sorry, not u320 I forget that. It doesn't cause any issues, active sensing was a problem even without the controller enabled. I tried resolving active sensing back under 3.1c and to my knowledge it's been an issue ever since. I was one of the first people running win2k/xp with scope, at least in the forums, due to using SMP rigs.

The 32bit/33mhz pci bus is connected to the 64bit bus. The 32bit/33mhz pci bus gives 133mb/s throughput, the 64bit bus runs at 66mhz and gives 533mb/s throughput. Neither of the drives I use are able to get more than 60mb/s throughput due to their age, and I don't care for RAID etc. I like scsi's ability to coprocess disk reads & writes (cpu just hands off the request then takes the data when it's ready) and far better queuing than sata's ncq, which is why it's on there. Even with sata 2.0 & ncq I feel my older system is still smoother with multiple disk accesses going on...