Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

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petal
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Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by petal » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:11 pm

I've been diving deep into John Bowens excellent QuantumWave lately and have discovered a problem.

The Pan-section doesn't seem to be working correctly.
I can pan right as expected, but panning left doesn't work.
When I pan left I hear a small increase in volume but that's about it.

It's the QWave ver. 1.1 I'm running, and I get the same result on both my XITE (Scope 5.1) and my PCI-system (Scope 5.0).

I am experiencing the same problem with Solaris V4.1

Could someone please double check this for me?

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by petal » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:22 pm

In my efforts to find a solution to this problem, I have discovered that the Pan-section works correctly in both QuantumWave or Solaris if you are running Scope v 4.5 or below.

I would still appreciate it if someone could double check this problem for me.

Cheers,
Thomas

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by garyb » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:03 pm

Thomas, i saw your email to me(and John).
i'll check this asap.
i wouldn't expect an immediate solution if i can confirm the problem, but it should be fixable.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by garyb » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:33 pm

so far, i can't confirm anything. i didn't hear an obvious problem.

those are both pretty complex synths, though. i'd need pretty detailed instructions so that i can follow your steps.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by petal » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:03 am

ok,

For this test I loaded the Qwave synth on both my pci (Scope v4.5) and xite-system (Scope v5.1).

1. Then I loaded the preset "full reset 2" which you will find in the Benoist Guitton preset bank.

2. I then turned off instrument 2, so that only one instrument is on, running only one wavetable, with no effects or any other "fancy" stuff going on in the patch.

3. In cubase I set up a simple note on each synth, which starts playing in the center and by midi I control it to pan all the way to the right, then pan all the way to the left and then back to the center again.

4. On the attached recording you will first hear the above described test played through on my pci-system running scope v4.5. which sounds as I would expect it to. Then there's a small pause, and then the same test played through on my xite running scope v5.1. You will hear that the first part sounds right. It pans to the right as expected, but once you get to the part of the test where it should start to pan left, what you hear is that the sound is still "centered" and the only difference you hear is a small increase in volume.
If you look at the attached sound example in a wave-editor, it is easy to see the problem.

5. I got the same problematic result on my pci-system when I had Scope v5.0 installed.
Attachments
Zarg synth pan test.png
Zarg synth pan test.png (178.29 KiB) Viewed 4742 times

[The extension mp3 has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]


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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by garyb » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:16 pm

you found a bug. i'll let John know.

it seems that the left doesn't cut when panned to the right. i think it might not be that obvious, depending on the patch, but it's definitely happening.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by petal » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:37 am

OK, let me know if I can be helpful in any way.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by johnbowen » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:07 am

garyb wrote:you found a bug. i'll let John know.
So, Gary did write, and all I can say is if it works in Scope 4.5 and earlier, but not in v5.0+, how can the 'bug' be in the device, and not the v5 software?

Anyway - I'll have to get Scope 5 and and a working version of the SDK for it, and see what I can do...but it still seems like it would not be in my 'corner'.

JB

p.s. and this won't be for awhile, since I'm working fulltime on getting the next production run of the keyboard Solaris out

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by dante » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:55 am

Does the problem happen on other synths (incl. non Zarg) in 5.x (if you substitute into the same project). Test again on a project rebuilt from scratch.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by johnbowen » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:10 pm

I think he said it doesn't happen on some other synths, just the Solaris v5 and the QuantumWave.

I suspect the pan sub-module I used for these 2, since as I recall, it was a newer module that wasn't available when many of the other Creamware devices were made. I'll have to investigate more, once I'm back home again.

JB

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by petal » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:11 pm

I have only found this problem in the two Zarg Synths that I have: Solaris v4.1 and QuantumWave v1.1. (It would still be nice if other people could test other Zarg synths for this problem and write back. Especially Solaris v5 since it seems a lot of people own that particular model)

I just tested the ReDrum and it doesn't seem to be affected by the problem.

None of the stock Scope synths seems to be affected.

I agree with John that the problem seems to have been introduced with Scope V5 /V5.1 and logic therefore suggests that it's a problem/bug in Scope more than in John's synths. Still Gary may be right that the problem will be easier fixed in the two affected plugins than in Scope, but it is really not for me to say - I just found the problem.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by johnbowen » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:53 am

OK, I finally got to check the panning modules in both Solaris and Quantum Wave, and these I copied from my Pro-Wave/Prophet Plus work. I see no difference, so I guess the next question would be, does anyone see this problem in the Prophet Plus or Pro-Wave?

John B.

p.s. one additional thought, Pedal - you wrote "by midi I control it to pan all the way to the right, then pan all the way to the left and then back to the center again." Maybe it's possible that the controlling by MIDI is not correct, but not if you use the knob on the surface. Could you try checking that?

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by garyb » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:57 am

it's not a midi problem. i've found the error with a mouse.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by petal » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:20 pm

It seems like a solution has been found for this problem. I haven't tried it out yet myself.

"We did some research and ended up replacing 'PAN_MODP.dsp' with the one from Scope v4.5 (1999). Now the panning in all of the Zarg synths appears to work correctly!" (Angela)

http://forums.johnbowen.com/viewtopic.p ... 0&start=15

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by t_tangent » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:38 am

I just saw the above recent posts about the fix, and it does seem to work fine for Scope for PCI v5.1 OS but it didnt work for my Scope for XITE v5.1 OS.

I moved PAN_MODP.dsp from Scope for PCI v5.1 located in C:/Program Files/Scope PCI/App/Dsp to a temp folder, then copied the PAN_MODP.dsp from Scope v 4.5 to that folder and restarted Scope for PCI. This worked fine and both Quantum Wave and Solaris v5 now pan left and right correctly.

But when I also swapping out the PAN_MODP.dsp Scope for Xite v5.1 this didnt work. I only have an older version of Solaris v4.1 on Scope XITE, and I donbt have Quantum Wave on that either so cant tell if those work ok after this fix, but for me this didnt work on Scope for Xite v5.1 and running Solaris v4.1, and when I try to move the Pan init knob the synth suddenly stops generating any sound.

Has anyone else tried this method on Scope for Xite, and if so could they let us know. Thanks :)

While on this subject is there any news from John Bowen regarding optimising his devices for XITE?

Cheers lads

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by johnbowen » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:50 am

t_tangent wrote:While on this subject is there any news from John Bowen regarding optimising his devices for XITE?

Cheers lads
Hi All,

While I do understand the frustration of not being able to run my bigger plugins (Solaris, Quantum Wave) with more polyphony on the XITE systems, the situation is that these 2 plugins require more connections internally than the XITE system can provide, so there is no way to optimise them further. The only thing I could do would be to reduce the number of modulation options for each plug-in, so that they would not be anywhere as flexible as they are now (which is a big part of their appeal, it seems!).

I don't know if anyone has tried the smaller version of Quantum Wave (the Quantum Wave SE) and checked the polyphony with an XITE system, but this does reduce the interconnections (being one of four synth modules of the Quantum Wave). Aside from that, I would have to make a new version of both, severely reducing the number of connecting pathways internally for them to give greater polyphony....but then you wouldn't have all that the synths are capable of.

john b.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by t_tangent » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:26 pm

Hi John, thanks for the reply, and yes sorry this does nudge my memory on the subject and I seem to recall the reason why I have Solaris 5 and QUantum Wave on the Scope Pro cards. Been out of the loop a bit lately so thanks for clearing that point up again.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by petal » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:20 pm

I tried the "solution" on my xite-system on the QuantumWave but it did not work. I guess this solution only works on SCOPE PCI-systems.

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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by RP_001 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:19 pm

johnbowen wrote: I don't know if anyone has tried the smaller version of Quantum Wave (the Quantum Wave SE) and checked the polyphony with an XITE system, but this does reduce the interconnections (being one of four synth modules of the Quantum Wave). Aside from that, I would have to make a new version of both, severely reducing the number of connecting pathways internally for them to give greater polyphony....but then you wouldn't have all that the synths are capable of.
Adding 4X QWave SE's to my default project (xite) gave me a total of 26 voices max (2x7 & 2x6). I had similar results replacing Qwave with Prowave 2.0 and WC Pro One.
QWAVE SE.jpg
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Re: Pan not working correctly on QuantumWave or Solaris V4.1

Post by petal » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:37 am

I just checked this issue on SCOPE 7 and the pan-bug persist.

You can fix it on PCI-systems by copying not PAN_MODP.dsp from Scope v 4.5, which did the trick in Scope V5.1 but by copying PAN_MOD.dsp from Scope v 4.5.

The fix doesn't work on XITE SCOPE v7.

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